THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[pocari_fenrir]

[RomaShield27]

[maro]

I wasn't really talking in the abstract. I think the addition of Isla - who I think is a very fine, all-round attacking fullback, from what I've seen (as good as just about anyone else and with real pace) - would be a huge gain for the club as would the addition of Sanchez, whether as a wide-right player or someone through the middle pushing Menez to the flank (hence the opposition to Crescenzi and D'Alessandro). Those sorts of players, though, would come at the expense of opportunities for Rosi, Crescenzi, D'Alessandro. Or we could do it this way: what do players like Pepe, Bovo, D'Agostino, Corvia, Curci, and Cerci all have in common? And who would bet that we won't be able to add Rosi and Okaka to their ranks this time next year? (Aquilani is a different case.) I'm pretty sure that, in the end, Greco, D'Alessandro, Okaka, Crescenzi, Rosi, Malomo, Brosco, Palermo won't be able to cut it at the level at which Roma likes to think of itself as competing. Make of that what you will.

[pocari_fenrir]

Id like to think that Okaka is as different a case as Aquilani's. Trouble is, we've wasted him with the signing of Adriano, because we could really use him now. While the rest of that list, we can all agree were half-rate with the exception of Bovo. Players like Pepe and D'Agostino just took too long to come into fruition. That's also a trait among many growing players in Italy, but the ones that truly make our starting XI from the youth stages are world beaters. While it's nice to keep the team Roman, it's also nice to keep our side competitive; we have been trying for the Scudetto for the past few seasons.

Isla would fit in fine. The only one troubled by his inclusion in the long run would be Malomo/Brosco (i forgot which one plays RB). Cassetti would cover Isla and will leave our squad when Malomo/Brosco pulls through the ranks (2-3yrs time). Rosi would switch to the left if Isla is signed to cover Riise. Few years down the line, it's up to Rosi/Antunes/Crescenzi to replace Riise. Meanwhile, i can see Greco staying with us because he is in the same mold as Simplicio/Perrotta/Brighi. Very soon, one of those will leave us.

[RomaShield27]

I'm beginning to think Okaka isn't quite going to fulfill his potential and make it for us at the top level, unfortunately. In cases like that – and with the like of Bovo and Pepe and D'Agostino and Cerci – it is a pity to see a homegrown talent not quite make the grade for us and fulfill our hopes of seeing them in our future, but that is simply the way it is and they weren't quite good enough. Sure, we could of kept them hanging around the background as back-up or out on loan, but the likes of Bovo and Pepe have excelled from playing regularly at a lower level so good luck to them. I think Tom is right in saying that a lot of the current crop of youngsters won't make it and will eventually move on like those above, that is only natural, but equally, there is a good chance that one or two of them will develop into an important player for us, and be the next Totti or DDR or even Aquilani. D'Alessandro perhaps, or Crescenzi, Malomo or Brosco. Valerio Verre is meant to be the next big thing coming though the Primavera.

Tom, new players like Sanchez or Isla would of course come at the expense of opportunities for some of our youngsters, but as I've said before the challenge is to find a right balance between the two paths, and it can be achieved with some planning. Like myself and Giovanni have said, it all depends on our new owners and whatever people actually end up running the club on a day-to-day basis. They have to appreciate the Italian culture and tradition of Roma and have to look out for the development of Italian and local players and not simply come along and spend like crazy in order to make us successful.

Some interesting stats and figures released from Deloitte on our current finances in the .

[ASR1927]

From football-italia:

Roma's sale to an American consortium led by Thomas Di Benedetto is a matter of hours away, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Last week, Roma opened exclusive talks with Di Benedetto regarding the sale.

La Gazzetta understands Di Benedetto has already provided proof that he has the funds to complete the deal via a written guarantee from the bank Piper Jaffray.

Last night, Unicredit executive Federico Ghizzoni told MF Dow Jones: “The negotiations are going well. There is a lot of positivity.”

It's thought that an announcement could be made as soon as tomorrow and that Di Benedetto could sign the final paperwork by the end of the week.

[maro]

I would suggest that in this day and age there is no right balance to be struck. You're either a feeder club which concentrates on developing its youth to be handed on to others or you're a head-table club which thrives on devouring others' prospects. Totti is a once in a 100 years player; DDR might be a once in a generation player. Even if he's not, you're looking at a club in which there are two or, at the very most, three local boys who make the grade at any given stage. And the other 8? And however carefully struck the balance is, more money will mean fewer chances for these kids. How many new generation local boys are there at any of the top clubs around Europe, Barcelona excepted. And how many of the few so-called youth products are local rather than were poached when they were in their teens?

[RomaShield27]

Solid post. Good points. In the harsh reality of modern day football, that is probably bang on. It is perhaps the price one must pay to become successful. Unless you achieve something extremely rare, such as Barcelona have done, you have to spend to win and you have to compromise the identity of the club in the process. It is a path that we, presumably, are about to embark upon if we do become foreign-owned, and yet there is a lot of enthusiasm around it, particularly in Rome itself where perhaps the dangers of it are as not well known, and I still have major doubts on whether it I'd like to see Roma go down.

I often ask myself why I let it bother me so much, why do I care, and to be perfectly honest, I guess I don't really know. I look at some of my friends who support ManPoo, the Puke, Chelski etc. who are so brashly financed by foreign owners and full of foreign players, and yet none of my friends care about that, all they care is that the club wins and that the club is successful. But at what price? Where is the compromise? Should we care at all if we see Roma full of foreign players, big-name signings, mercenary Cashly Cole's or horrible Drogba-esqu cunts, with no Romans and few Italians, what does it matter as longer as Roma win? Right? I mean no player is bigger than the club, the players just play because they are paid, so what does it matter, as long as AS Roma the club wins? But it does matter. For some reason I can't really fully explain, it does matter. If Giovanni were to be asked that question – if he'd like to see Roma win with a team built like that – I think we all know what his response would be. In some way, it is no longer what we associate with being Roma. A team with no Romans, or at least a handful of Italians, is not really a Roman team anymore. It has no real link to the past, to the city, to the history and tradition of the club, to the days of Conti and D'Agostino and Giannini and Totti and what players like that mean to the fans of the club. It is part of what makes Roma, part of the attraction and soul of the club which we were all attracted too in the first place. That is why I keep harping on about maintaining some sort of balance between keeping Roman or, at least, Italian, and splashing out on big-name players if we do fall into foreign hands, and why I think it is so important.

[pocari_fenrir]

Just a quick question, what do you think of our team right now with respect to the foreigner : italian : roman ratio?? Even when you quote history, there were never more than 2 players that were really good. Of course, that isnt entirely true as with Conti's era there were others like Ancelotti and Tancredi. Perhaps some of the more senior members here could shed more light on those ratios when we've won throughout history compared the ratio we have on the pitch now

also, something on opting out of the Adriano experiment when it's necessary
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/20 ... s-contract

[loazzi]

Although I haven't been posting, I've been following this discussion intently. Part of the reason I haven't posted is because I don't really know what to think or say. The other part is because I have so many thoughts and so much to say.

I'm very torn over this whole ownership issue. I think we would all have been THRILLED for a guy like Angelini to take over, keep our Roman identity and provide us with some cash to get a few players that would allow us to compete for Serie A and CL. That didn't happen. What we were left with was a number of alternatives that had pluses and minues. Is this DiBenedetto contingent the best overall available option? I don't really know. Is it worse than being owned by Unicredit who will spend ZERO on us for another year or more until a Roman may or may not decide to pony up and buy the club? Who knows?

For me, this DiBenedetto thing is very difficult to digest on many fronts. For one, like many of you have pointed out, they are not Roman/Italian and do not/can not fully appreciate the culture and passion of AS Roma. On a personal note, this group is affiliated with the two sports teams that I despise more than any other sports teams in the world not named Lazio (i.e. Liverfekkin'wankscum and the Red Sox). I have no idea how I'm going to be able to resolve that for myself. I'm already setting aside money for intensive psychotherapy.

A few positives (or potential positives) about this whole thing. The names that the media have linked to this group with respect to taking over the Calcio side of things (i.e. Baldini, Sabatini, Ancelotti, Zeman) would indicate that these guys might "get it" more than we are giving them credit for. (In response to a comment that I believe Giovanni made, I'm sure Conti will still have a key role). As much as I like that the names of Baldini and Ancelotti are being linked, one of the most positive aspects is that (if true), they want to bring an "adopted" Roman in Zeman to head our youth system. If they are, in fact, already demonstrating such a commitment to the development of our youth system as to have an identified and accomplished man like Zeman head our youth system, that, to me, implies that they want our youth system to really become the building block of the club. Why else bring in a guy like Zeman to head the youth system if you're not very serious about the youth system really becoming the foundation for the club? As such,there may be a strong commitment to developing young players (many of whom will likely be Roman) to form the foundation of the team and like several of you have suggested, money can be spent to fill in the gaps with real difference makers.

IF, and thats a big IF, these guys are dedicacted to keeping "Romans" like Conti, Ancelotti, Zeman, Papa DeRossi, maybe Totti when he hangs them up and foster young Roman calcio talent, does the fact that these guys are foreign really matter? After all, what is it that makes Roma so special? Is it the front office? I don't think so because we are all still so passionate about Roma DESPITE the front office of the past few years. I think what makes Roma so special is the connection between the fans and the team. For me, Conti has always been the perfct embodiment of why I love Roma. His loyalty, his passion, his heart, his desire, his magic. For me, the entire club has taken on those qualities. Maybe those qualities were present before Conti (they probably were). I just think that it would take an awful lot for these new owners to eradicate all of that. They would have to have zero understanding of, appreciation for and respect for what AS Roma is all about. And even if they do have zero understing, appreciation and respect, there are MILLIONS of loyal Romanisti who will never lose their love for Roma.

Quite honestly, I'm not concerned that these new owners are going to de-Roma-fy Roma for me. For me, Roma will always be Roma. Roma will always be Conti and Agostino and Carletto and Il Principe and il Capitano and Capitan Futuro, etc...... The new fans may or may not learn about the Roma soul. But that Roma soul will always be inside all of us.

All that said, I'm still anxious, happy, sad, angry, excited, scared and nervous all mixed together about all of this ownership BS. But if I wasn't....would it still be my Roma???

[maro]

Lavazza, great post and great to read your thoughts. I haven't posted so much of late in part because I think I'm probably in a slightly different place from most of you guys. I think I can probably crystallise it like this: I'm less concerned about 'how true these Americani will be to Romanitas' than I am about the possibility of being true to Romanitas in the footballing culture of this day and age. What, for instance, would I do if I had 100 mil I could spend? How long does one wait for Rosi to come good when one's in a position to go out and pick up Isla or, say, Dani Alves (though I know not everyone will share my almost unalloyed admiration for the Brazilian)? With all due respect, I think edzo's position is essentially based on the false premise that there will always be enough top-drawer Romani coming through to maintain that spine in the centre of the club, however multicultural and gio's position is based on the false premise that there must be enough good Italians and Romans available - if only you look hard enough - to keep that culture at the heart of the club. I say false premise in each case sympathetically rather than dismissively. What, though, if there aren't? Do you accept second-best and remain Roman/Italian?

And what the hell do we care? We who aren't Romani, however much of a hold the city has over our hearts? thredzo probably only clings to the distinctiveness of a Roman Roma because it's a substitute, a consolation for the more immediately tangible successes his ManUre-following friends have to hang onto. Successive Champions League victories will create their own history, their own something to cling to. Gio probably only holds onto a Roman Roma because of a deep and deeply understandable nostalgia.

Football has beaten me, I think. Its superficialities lie too deep to be shaken off.

[ASR1927]

[SPqR]

I can't take another 2nd place losing season or a fucking Coppa Italia...bring in the yank and have him spend a few bucks...Italian players will always want to play in Italy...more money will mean that we may purchase the top Italian players while developing a youth system...we can loan out guys like Okaka until they are good enough to crack the roster.

[romawi]

[Italiamia]

[Deini]

Gio, let me ask you this, what do you think of the fact that names like Parnasi, Angelini or Leonardo Caltagirone are being considered by Unicredit to buy 20% of their 40? Or did they do better if they actually made an offer to require the whole club and not a small portion?

What I've been reading all, with the names being thrown around they want to hire for the technical aspects, it all sounds great on paper but how will it happen when they all need to cooperate with each other? Maybe this is just a smokescreen for us fans who think maybe those Americans are meaning business and want to keep the Roman identity by let them run it who knows how it is going in Rome.

Also I like to point out that all the political influences want Angelucci as the new owner. I bet even Alemanno was pushing for this one but since it is known the Americans will have exclusive negotiations he is suddenly all quiet. And I even bet that the other offers from the French millionaire (who Candela said was an excellent one) and the latest from Deson & Company are all just bs news that comes from Pippo Marra, not even mentioning the Aabar one.

Unicredit has made a decision and I even think that it's just payback for La Sensi. The offer won't even exceeds the 100 million which means she won't get 5% of it thus why she was unhappy with it. Should've sold it when there was a nice offer on the table but she bluffed and look with what she got left now.

And loazi, great post.

[RomaShield27]

[RomaShield27]

a very useful link from Bloomberg with info and stats about Thomas R. Di Benedetto:



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Right, back to some sort of normality, still no Pizza take-away for Napoli (). Ranieri said he finally hopes to have it delivered and available for the Shakatar game next Wednesday (see what I done there, haah?). Looks like it will be Cassetti and Juan at centre-half with Daniele staying in midfield, which I think is the right choice.

[Italiamia]

[RomaShield27]

Clearly Caltagirone is not a Romanista, or at least, a big fan of calcio, Giovanni? I mean he has bought and developed so much in and around Rome you would think he would of snapped at the chance to buy Roma. Sure, he may not make money from it as one rarely does from a football club, but he could of acquired it and turned it around completely with proper business and calcio people running it for him, building a new stadio etc. It would of been pocket change for him. It is a great pity, but as we said earlier its time to forget him as he had is chance.

Has anyone seen Edge around recently? He was last active on 2 Feb. A big shout to him at the news of Mubarak finally resigning in Egypt, here's hoping he and his family are ok and enjoying this development.