THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[RomaShield27]

[maro]

Personal? I just try to keep a little logic in play so the discussion can unfold as a series of responses to what's been said. That way all of our arguments end up a bit more interesting and refined. Totti's out of form and shouldn't have started seems a reasonable proposition to me. Vooch is in form and should have started seems to me very much harder to justify. Vooch should have started because Totti's out of form: debatable but logical.

A second proposition: that Vooch should have started as well as Totti and so, I guess, instead of Cicinho in an extremely attacking 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or instead of Menez. Fine, an interesting proposition but a totally different one and one which would need to be explored on quite different sorts of terms.

A third proposition: "if Totti's biggest problem at the moment is that he's adjusting to a different team shape and a different role [...] then surely it only goes to highlight further that he should not of started against Napoli." I can at once think of three reasons which suggest that that "it only goes to highlight" doesn't make much logical sense. I like to think with the ideas you guys propose - and to test them. And I'm struggling to stick with them once they're tested. I can see why starting with Vooch would have made sense; I can also see why starting with Totti and with Vooch on the bench made good sense. Shoot me if that's treating the matter in an excessively personal fashion.

[Giacomo]

I still think yesterday's selection was straightforward, with Brighi replacing Perrotta next to Pizarro and De Rossi, and Menez behind Borriello and Vucinic.

Totti was not in condition to start yesterday.

[RomaShield27]

Jasus, Thomo, what makes you think I was referring specifically about you? lol. We know your the Great Professore and all and like to argue over the colour of shite, but I meant in more broader terms. Roma fans the world over must be having a similar debate. Certainly in our small little circle of the Offide, RA etc., people are having the same discussion and its leading to controversy. To me its a simple matter of team selection, but its made personal because it involves Totti and with that comes all that Totti stands for. Not just a football player but a symbol of Rome, a legend who stands above all others, and so to criticise him to and suggest he be dropped is seen as blasphemy and against everything Roman. But that simply should not be the case.

What you're suggesting in you're second proposition I can certainly agree with, but that is more to do with Ranieri and his selections and the mistakes he made in those choices.

[maro]

Honestly, I don't see how this argument can be anything but personal. If you're on the wrong side on this one I just don't think you can be considered a true Romanista. Harsh, perhaps, but my opinion nonetheless.

[Italiamia]

I think we are making too much of this Totti situation. Whether he should have started yesterday is debatable. I am not of the mind to say that he should not have started, but, I am with Edzo in that Vucinic definitely should have been on that pitch from the beginning. I see no reason why both cannot play with Borriello. Beyond this, I am not prepared to pronounce Totti finished. All I am saying, along with other Roma fans, is that given his age, it is best to keep his minutes down from previous years. It is better for him and the team in the long run. Although, having listened to some of the things Ranieri has been saying, I am not sure that is what he is prepared to do at the moment. Totti is not a pathetic waste of space like the Waterboy. He stil has a lot to offer and is still, in my opinion, one of the better players in the world even at 34. I do not think he hurts the team if he is on the pitch, even if he is a bit tired. I do however think it hurts the team if Vucinic is not on the pitch which is why I am somewhat upset with Ranieri today.

[Giacomo]

The only thing I would disagree with is when you say Totti's presence on the pitch does not hurt the team when he is tried. In the last few games when he has looekd tired he has frequently lost possession in an advanced position and we have suffered devestating counter-attacks. In such circumstances, he needs to move the ball more quickly or, preferably, be substituted.

[stefano]

That quicker (and more decisive) ball movement should come as he adapts to whatever system we use with more frequency. That said, I do agree that he should be substituted if overly tired.

[Italiamia]

[romawi]

[Carlo Romano]

Now that I've got your attention by previously going from the sublime to the ridiculous, having posted the latest news concerning la magica in a gossip column format, we can get to the more serious business. The heading may have changed but I will continue as I have been doing, trying to always present the facts as they appear in Italy, as opposed to the sometimes inaccurate UK and American sourced 'net offerings.

On the day when a special Mass was said, a second chance for those fans who were unable to pay their respects on August 17 past, the anniversary of the death of Don Franco, neither Romanews nor La Repubblica spared Ranieri, Capitan' Francè, and Big Fatso with their criticism! What they say will be music to the ears of those among us here who think Totti should be used "wisely," and "as required," rather than over a full match. Note too, the mounting pressure to play Ménez-Borriello-Vučinić as first choice...



Romanews begins...

Following the decision taken late on Sunday, a 48 hour layoff for management staff, coach, and players following the Napoli debacle, in order to allow all to reflect, to try to get a grip of individual responsibilities with all resuming work on Wednesday, hopefully with a greater conviction...

As far as the tifosi romani are concerned, Ranieri is the arch-villain of the piece, he being il nostro mister! Debatable choices of module and players, very bad management of the recent cases of Totti and Adriano during the Inter match, a too easy-going attitude toward the team, and poor athletic preparations. They, and indeed we all would list these as being the main reasons which see us in crisis as we now are, brought to a head by yesterday's defeat against Napoli.

On Totti they are saying, just as I have, that in his present condition he is not a 90 min. man, despite the recent rhetoric by our mister which sings his praises and in my opinion was done to make the peace. The fans question the relationship between the two men, saying it may have forced our mister to substitute players other than Totti. Like Borriello yesterday, the only one in top form, but who, according to Ranieri "was tired!" The fans are referring to it as a two faced decision...

Another emblematic comment was that Totti must be used from the bench, Ranieri must play Ménez-Borriello-Vučinić as first choice. With regard to how that can be done, Ranieri will just have to adapt his gameplan to suit!



La Repubblica continues in similar vein:

Only five points in the classifica? Only two victories in nine official contests, with five defeats out of five away matches? The statistics cannot be argued with. Now, in the romanista locker room one breathes an air of tension and divisions...

Two cases of fault, both in Ranieri's authority and player discipline...two “cases” against Inter, with Totti who contested the change while Adriano refused to play. Then yesterday, the controversy of Borriello with Ranieri: “I was not tired, the change astonished me” were the exact words of the centravanti. In the San Paolo dressing rooms immediately after the match, the leaders (Ranieri & Totti?) addressed the group saying: “We must avoid being exited like this, this is a dangerous moment. Dangerous for integrity and the balance of the squad."

The present situation however is affecting all levels, the team, technical and management staff. It seems that the problems of the past year which had appeared to be cured by the summer have been "reopened." On the management of the dressing room...who can be entrusted with making and acting upon unpopular decisions? The disciplinary ones which weren't made with Totti and Adriano and the substitutions which in future will not unjustly hit players like Borriello?

Rosella Sensi has other problems to deal with in waiting for a purchaser and doesn't need this, but in the aftermath of Sunday's defeat, the directors will on Wednesday re-evaluate the position of il mister! Talks will be regarding both he and others they have spoken about over a long time span. They intend to also discuss Totti's future role. Is he irreplaceable over 90 minutes or should he be substituted when the need occurs? Whichever decision is taken on our gallant Capitan' risks displeasing many, both within and outside the team.

La Repubblica understands that la nostra principessa has already discussed her decisions with Pradè and Montali on the telephone. It would seem from leaked information that Ranieri has little time left (2-3 weeks?) to save himself. As for the players, the international break gives Borriello, De Rossi, Mexes, Nico Burdisso, Lobont, Vučinić, Riise and Okaka the chance of some fresh air away from the crisis...

The above articles and more in original Italian form: http://www.romanews.eu/



In the meantime, Rai and Mediaset text services are both running pages stating that Maria Sensi, when interviewed on Radio IES, said her daughter Rosella still has a good working relationship with il mister Ranieri and insists he is still very much in charge of coaching matters.



On a lighter and much prouder note, from LaRoma24.it this evening...

At 19:30CET the "Cavalieri della Roma" (Knights of Rome) at the Palazzo delle Esposizioni (Palace of Exhibitions) presented Bruno Conti with the prize of the Bandiera del Calcio “Franco Sensi,” the "Franco Sensi Soccer Banner." David Pizarro also was presented with a trophy, giocatore giallorosso dell’anno 2009-2010 or Roma "player of the year" award, 2009-10!

Celebs and present/former players attending included our former goalkeepers Giacomo Losi and Antonio Tempestilli, Roman singers Antonello Venditti and Luca Barbarossa, former tennis star Adriano Panatta, Francè Totti, DamianoTommasi, Walter Samuel, Marcos Cafu, and Danino De Rossi. Also there was the legendary former Portuguese star Eusebio!

Access this link to see the photos: http://www.laroma24.it/index.php?show=gallerie&id=289

[Giacomo]

[maro]

Ah, Chewna, we don't deserve you. You speak too much careful, thoughtful sense.

[Carlo Romano]

Somewhat predictably perhaps with the upcoming international break, it's been a quiet day here in "la tribuna romana!" Notice my preference of the word tribuna rather than foro...given it's more vulgar alternative meaning, I've never been comfortable with that word! It's also quiet on the news front other than the predictable gossip-mongering which seems ever plentiful, so I'll just post a couple of items for now...


Romanews today also has little to offer, but this piece on Pizarro, because of it's final five words, gets my Roman soul fired up in approval! Following the presentation last night of his award for being the best Roma player 2009-10, our little pizza man commented on our present situation.

“We have lost our way on the pitch, we must help Ranieri more. There is the quality to get ourselves out of this difficult moment. We have done it in the past and we will do it again. It's difficult to understand what isn't working, seeing the squad that we have this year. The results show that we are doing badly and we aren't hiding from that fact. This break will help us find ourselves again. We will certainly improve. We have to do it. I care about winning here!”



Amongst all the current bashing of Ranieri, or "Mister Pasticcione" (Mr Busybody) as he is now finally being referred to in Italia, I've read he has lead us to our worst start to a season since our poor 1950-51 and 1978-79 campaigns. I hadn't known the exact years though I certainly had read our absolute worst was 1950-51 when we suffered our only relegation. That WON'T happen now, not with the players we have, so I hope no-one here is tempted to post thoughts of it actually happening!



Some of you here have already commented that Totti cannot best perform within certain formations.

LaVocegiallorossa is running a piece on just that. They say Totti is struggling in a module which has primo e secondo punti...two front men and that under those conditions he cannot coexist with Marco Borriello, that Ranieri has to return to a 4-2-3-1 if Totti plays. They continue however, stating our Capitan' should be benched if Ranieri sees the need to play Ménez-Borriello-Vučinić.

Their news of the day would appear to be in suggesting that Signor Claudio could remain in charge until his contract expires next summer when Carlo Ancelotti will be brought in as his replacement since Lippi doesn't convince as an alternative...this follows from the interview involving Maria Sensi on Radio IES yesterday.

Despite the fact that our presidentessa and her upper office staff haven't appreciated the Totti-Adriano-Borriello behaviour, Mister Pasticcione has decided not to make matters worse by disciplining them. However, Totti will meet with both he and Rosella tomorrow to discuss all matters. There is the directors' meeting also to discuss Ranieri. Yesterday we learned that Rosella has already issued her instructions to Montali and Pradè. Now we wait to see just what that leaked information contains!

For the original Italian text:

http://www.romanews.eu/

http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/



...and if Ménez fans are interested, here is a piece on his being substituted six times out of six successive matches.
http://laroma24.it/archivio/28681/part- ... u-sei.html

[RomaShield27]

Nice reviews Carlo. Its good you take the time to translate all those articles for us non-Italian speaking folk. So they are referring to Ranieri as "Mr Busybody" in Italy? I suppose its similar to the Tinkerman in that he perhaps is a bit too sporadic is his decisions. Despite my criticisim of 'Mr Busybody' over selections against Napoli, I have to say I still feel any talk of firing him at this stage is far too premature. It has been a disastrous start to the season, no doubt, but not all of the blame can be laid at the feet of Ranieri and removing him now would only lead to further problems. We need to stick together as a team and work our way though this difficult period, and I hope our management feels the same way and don't do anything stupid (which means they probably will etc.). Ranieri needs to do as he sees best for the team, whether that be change the formation or changing/dropping players.

On that, Totti wrote in his that he is prepared to "sacrifice himself" (translated via ) :

“I have worn this shirt for 21 years and for more than 10 as the captain of this team. I have laughed and cried about the results we have achieved, but I have always done so with the spirit of a No 1 fan and a No 1 professional within this team. I would never allow myself to be put in a situation of privilege with respect to the other Roma players. Moreover as the captain of Roma I confirm that I don't want to be this team's problem. If whoever with the decision-making power in this club believes that I have become a problem for this club, they must say so to me, then I can make my decision because I don't want to be a burden on anyone. I have always been and will always be available to this team and these colours to try and make our fans dream and to make our Roma win.”

[vtec]

funny how ranieri can finally shed his reputation as mr second and replace it with mr second-last.

[romawi]

[aba_bab]

[maro]

Do you hate Cassetti? I thought you just thought Cicinho looked tasty - in that sort of way that most of the world looks half tasty to a giant blimp.

[Carlo Romano]

At 17:10CET today, as we all know by now, our principessa issued her royal decree of a total Press silence. What Goal.com and Football Italia haven't told us, but has been revealed by the Roma 'net sites is that all incoming questions/outgoing responses will have to go through not an an official spokesperson but via the club's official website after being first screened by La Sensi... it would seem that this time they are serious about no leakage of info...




Una presidentessa molto interessato!


...which rather makes a damp squib of the expectation of news from the directors' discussions held today. We can however rest assured, just as was said over the past days, the main topic of conversation in the upper office was how to best face our future. We will have to wait to discover the fate of Mr Pasticcione! Also that of certain players!

This also means there may be very little of any Roma news for us to see other than speculation which helps no-one, until we face the grifone genovese at the Olimpico di Roma on Saturday the 16th!



But in the meantime, from LaVocegiallorossa...

At the start of the week, the graffitti on the wall outside Trigoria read, "Claudio, we the fans are with you." Today the name had been painted over...today he has been left in no doubt that if he, Ranieri stays, the "Tinkerman" act must go! Mr Pasticcione must decide on a definite formation and select his players best suited to it. No more constant changes! This is the "crux" of the article...

In his first romanista season, Ranieri knew to exploit the resources available to him, going from the 4-4-2 to the rombo and to the tridente, then to return to the spallettiano 4-2-3-1, choosing between Totti and Toni(when available!) To the critics and fans, this tormented beginning of the present season represents a warning. After the arrival of Borriello, Ranieri seems to to be slowly ripening to the conviction of the impossibility, at least for the moment, of the coexistence on the pitch of Borriello and Totti. It has never before happened that our captain hasn't scored a single goal in nine official matches and he appears to no longer have what is necessary to play secondo punto.

Ranieri seems to have bowed to the will of Totti by commiting the mistake of substituting Borriello instead of him at the San Paolo. The confusion of the coach is obvious also in the utilisation of Ménez whom he often replaces after 45 minutes, but with no-one who was more incisive in action. (Adriano with Cluj and Brighi with Napoli). Against the blues, the choice of changing the defence to a back three was open to debate Well, the reasons for worry for the Roma fans and players aren't lacking, and we now wonder if we can still place our trust in the man who last year knew how to lift the squad.



Mediaset TV text service today had a short piece on Stefano Okaka. He said: "I don't see my future at Roma. If I have the chance I will leave. It's not easy for a young player to find space. If you do well in the summer training camp as I did and the club then goes out and buys other players..."

Sport Mediaset is suggesting Signor Claudio sees Enzo Maresca, currently a free agent whose last club was Olimpiakos, as a possible alternative to Simplicio. He could arrive in January if he can be talked out of his trial basis arrangement with Galatasary!


Realistically Okaka is no Marco Borriello but is nonetheless a favourite of mine, and he in my opinion should be groomed by us and played by us. I have more faith in his ability to improve than I do in that of Big Fatso!

As for Maresca to replace Simplicio. At 30 years of age he ought to still be serviceable. We would have to assume the same mistake wouldn't be made twice and that Maresca would arrive more fit than "Little Fatso" did if he comes to us.

Looking at Wikipedia for info, I found this: After mutually terminating his contract with Olympiakos just days before the 2010 summer transfer window closed, he is currently on trial with Galatasaray until the January transfer window of 2011. He will train with the club like a regular player but only competing in friendlies and unofficial matches. If he is found to be a good addition to the squad he could sign a permanent deal.




LaRoma24.it is running a poll which I suppose is inevitable in view of the blackout announced earlier, given that the probable lack of news will bring much speculation:

"We have a situation which is the reverse of last season. This Roma does not win and does not convince and the bad mood of certain players is affecting the locker room environment. Ranieri's confusion in this season's beginning is obvious and is becoming more complex. LaRoma24.it asks you readers if you would fire Ranieri now or allow him to see out his contract."


My answer to that, just as some of you are also saying here is "neither." It's common sense to realise the club's directors will make a decision based on the outcome of the next two or three matches which could see Signor Claudio gone by Christmas. I'm glad however to see Rosella today deny Walter Novellino is his replacement.



Even Football Italia couldn't screw up the translation of today's announcement by our presidentessa but for those who missed it, here is the link:

http://www.football-italia.net/oct06t.html

However, for those who understand Italian, the original is always worth a look for revealing something that is lost in translation...or left out. Our Capitan' Francè has always said he views Rosella as one would do an elder sister and perhaps her comment regarding Totti's current bad moods was based on that relationship... "If there was a problem, he would have told me!" I believe that and I'm glad today LaVocegiallorossa posted this:




Here is just one of many links giving the same Press blackout info:

http://laroma24.it/




From today at Trigoria...it's in the interest of every giallorosso that this pair stay on good terms!






Ed, thanks for the reference man, it's appreciated! Having said that, I'm not doing this because I'm out to get +1 accolades, I'm doing it for all our benefits. If we each share our thoughts and news on Roma and indeed other matters, then this place becomes a livelier and more interesting place for everyone to enjoy.

Which is precisely why you took the time, went to the trouble and expense of setting up our new forum website!