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by **Jamoldo** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:46 am

Maro, I completely understand the point of view, agree in principle and if there was some standard (for better or worse) then I would probably be all for it, but how far back is one supposed to trace reparations and benefit? How does one quantitatively figure out how much and to what degree to dole out reparations?

Who is going to pay? Let's use UBS as an example. If the company benefitted from WWII activites in keeping (hiding - tax free) money stolen from WWII affected parties (Jews, Gays, Gypsies, political prisoners etc) and that these parties demand reparations today.

How much do you give and who gives it? We know the company is probably structured in some ridiculously complex way for tax and legal purposes, but would it be today's execs? shareholders (people, private/public pensions, hedge funds, etc)? family members of execs at the time? Their relatives? How much should they pay? We all know records were lost (ie. burned), so whose measure is going to be accurate? What's the metric for inflation? The people at UBS, their clients, governments, and the people of Switzerland have most certainly benefitted (even during this crisis) from the company's actions at that time and after it. Are they all going to pay?

Who is going to administer the process? Will it be "fair?" No one will ever be happy with the outcome.

by **aba_bab** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:23 am

jeez... clearly both of you are trying to move onto and offtopic subject when the fact of the matter is.. whats really important and on-topic.. and that cannot be ignored, are India and New Zealands respective failures to make an impression on the T20 Cricket World Cup, and collectively both of you are trying to avoid talk about the final in about 5 hrs... jammy obviously because he's from the dark side... and maro obviously becuase he's mentioned it several times he has an affinity to the forces of evils representatives in cricket.

On a sidenote... maro.. if we were to hold present generations responsible for immoral/illigal practices that thier 5th or 6th generation ancestors did, then i'm pretty sure the majority of ethnicities would have some sort of blood money on their hand. Why restrict it only to WWII holocaust victims?

by **maro** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:22 am

dibdib, of course - my instance, you will have noted, was a colonial one and had nothing at all to do with the holocaust. 'moldy, that it might be impossible to arrive at appropriate reparations for all sorts of reasons is a cogent argument but also a different one, but I guess also actually lay behind your first comment. I just get grumpy with the complacency of the 'argument' as it gets trotted out by New Zealanders from time to time. I think the New Zealand context is also less complex than most (because there are fewer sets of relations involved; it's extraordinary, for instance, that at the beginning of the 20th century the New Zealand state deliberately propagated the story that the Moriori, another people, had been displaced by the Maori themselves so that a second wave of colonisation could be legitimated by the shadow of a first - as a kind of express acknowledgement of the fact that the relations needed to be muddied).

dibdib, good luck to your boys this afternoon. I was hoping the Kiwis would win so that I'd be able to decry 20-20 as a worthless waste of time from a position of a certain authority. That 20-20 is a sufficiently short format for the Kiwis genuinely to believe they were in with a chance of winning the tournament says just about all that needs to be said about the value of 20-20. It's not really a waste of time, of course - I just find it hard to get too excited about it.

by **Carlo Romano** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:21 pm

by **stefano** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:35 pm

by **Carlo Romano** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:39 pm

by **aba_bab** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:48 pm

by **RomaShield27** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:20 pm

by **aba_bab** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:24 pm

Well.. don't say i didnt tell you... after the World Cup win this morning, i was sure Italy was getting thumped. Bottom line.. we need to overhaul our defense... Chiellini has been pretty prdinary this year.. and Cannavaro was pretty awful to... Toni... wow... bring in the next generation...

by **Carlo Romano** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:32 am

We sometimes need humour to dull the pain!

Yes indeed, aba! For our new Italy...make like Star Trek, bring on the Next Generation!

Data in goal, Worf and Riker as centre backs, Reg Barclay and Wesley Crusher as left & right backs, Picard, LaForge, and O'Brien in midfield, with Deanna Troi, Beverley Crusher, and Ro Laren making up the tridente!

As Matthew Perry of "Friends" would have said in the earlier episodes, "Could they be any worse?"

Lippi said we should stay calm and not go nuts about wanting the young bloods brought in, that it takes experience to win games like we've just played. The fact that he muttered something about now going on holiday and bucking up their ideas when they come back tells me he intends to continue in much the same way, next sesh...unless pressure is brought to bear on him!

Damn, he should've quit while he was ahead, as he did after Mondiale 2006 and remained a hero! There were plenty of challenging occupations he could've gone for after his year off without harming his rep. It's not as if money is an issue!

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On another and more serious note...make of this what you will, guys!

Mediaset text service tells us Franco Baldini will be our first acquisition of the mercato if Fioranelli takes over! For the record...

Franco Baldini is currently working as the General Manager under Fabio Capello in the England backroom staff.

Most of us will already know he was director of football at Roma from 1999 until he resigned in March 2005. He joined Fabio Capello at Real Madrid in 2006. When Don Fabio took over as England manager in December 2007, Baldini became assistant manager. His role doesn't involve coaching on the training pitch however, it involves scouting and managing the support staff like the doctor, physiotherapist, masseurs and kit managers.

So if we hypothesise, just to pass the time, can we assume he could both work for us and continue with Capello? I doubt it very much unless this would prove to be another "manufactured" job with handsome salary, not unlike one of the two positions la Sensi currently has...with luck, in her case soon to be changed to the status of had!

Just for argument's sake, in the unlikely event Baldini returns to us on a full-time basis, what difference might Fioranelli's plans make to our Triade of PradÃƒÂ¨-Conti-Spalletti? The end of either PradÃƒÂ¨ or Conti? In Conti's case, surely that's not possible?

And if on a part-time basis, is this to be an example of our new Roma? "Jobs for the boys?"

by **Jamoldo** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:15 am

by **maro** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:02 am

by **Deini** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:21 am

by **maro** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:35 am

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