The Official Azzurri thread

[maro]

"The Normal One," Bagg - let's be honest, all of us were calling him much, much worse last night and my language hasn't improved an awful lot this morning. Can I just say once more, and never again, then, that the real question is not whether De Rossi plays instead of Ambrosini (for all that that's a 'no-brainer' as you yanks elegantly like to put it), but whether Perrotta or Aquilani, or even Camoranesi, as Morra suggests, plays as one of those midfield three. It's interesting that Pirlo was suggesting he'd have played a bit higher up the pitch with DDR alongside him; my complaint is rather more that none of those guys are ever going to spend much of their time getting close to Luca. It's pretty harsh to criticise Luca when he was completely, comically/tragically isolated. When the Milan midfield are in form, they can play as a three because Milan play very narrow up top - whether with Seedonk and Kaka' behind a single striker, or with two up-top together. They rely entirely on their fullbacks for width and the forward players, as a result, can get close enough to one another to link up and keep the ball. That's not the way Donadoni's 4-3-3 works where all the width supposedly comes from the two wide players. Of course the fullbacks can also get on, but the wide players always keep their width, which leaves the striker completely isolated. Or, at least, it does if you have no-one breaking from midfield to get close to him. There's just this massive hole between Luca and the furthest forward of the midfield 3. It took Ambrosini 88 minutes to catch up with Luca - and that's just a little bit too long. Even with DDR in there the side looked completely imbalanced against Lithuania so many moons ago; Ambrosini exaggerates the frailty but it's already there with a DDR-Rhino-Pirlo trio. Italy might have lost 6-3 had Perrotta been playing yesterday - I have no idea - but I bet Luca would have looked a much, much better player with someone running off him. If none of those attacking midfielders gets the start, Italy are going to be inguardabile even when they are effective. And when they're not even effective, well . . .

[maro]

Sorry that that's all so bleedingly obvious - I just keep saying it to myself and thinking, what's wrong with that logic? Isn't it just utterly straightforward? And yet how, then, can a bloody International manager keep making the same mistakes, game after game after game? What is not obvious about that, Donadoni? You fucking muppet.

[The MAN]

You guys make it sound like the everybody else was in top shape and the midfield cost Italy the game when IMO they were not any worse than the defence, particularly down the middle.

Barazgli-Materazzi-Panucci were terrible out there, any CB combination just sucked, plain and simple. For a defence to hold the CBs must be in sync and that was not the case

Zambrotta was a bit better but thats no surprise
Grosso was a massive upgrade over Panucci in the fullback and it showed. He should have started ahead of him. I made a post a few days ago saying there were only 2 real fullbacks in the entire squad and now both must be used, its just not right to have such lack of options in terms of fullbacks

Pirlo was relatively alright
I agree Ambro and Rino were terrible and should not have both been started, but in general everybody sucked just as much, even Toni missed an easy chance or two. Di Natale sucked, and Camornesi sucked almost the same as well.

Next game, I'd put Chilleni ahead of Materazzi, Grosso for Panucci, De Rossi for Rino, and Cassano for Di Natale. I think those 4 changes are enough (for now)

[Jamoldo]

Ita and to anyone else who follows (or has followed) the NFL in the past...

Remember the Tuck Rule?

[maro]

The Man, it's not really a matter of criticising Ambro and Rhino - it's that the tactical shape of the side is completely out of sync with those three in the middle. They all did what one would expect of them; it's just that what you need from those midfielders in a 4-3-3 is exactly what one wouldn't expect of any of them. Going forward, Italy were dire, and that's in large part because of the team shape rather than a function of individual performances. Put these five players in order of who you'd least like to see breaking forward from midfield with the ball at his feet: Ambro-Rhino-DDR-Aquilani-Perrotta. Oh, hang on, it seems I've done that for you. It's true there were lots of poor performances across the pitch, but the principle problem was a matter of balance and it doesn't matter how well that Milan midfield trio play, they're simply not going to give the side the right kind of balance.

[RomaShield27]

Well said Maro, and it does need to be said because it is so obvious, and yet the obvious is still not clear to the man in charge of the world champions. The biggest fear now is that Don won't learn from his mistakes and will just replicate the same line-up for the remaining two games, which in all likelihood he probably will. He may bring in De Rossi for one of Ambo or Rino but even that won't change it all that much, and it will be the same set up against Romania. He is effectively trying to play the Roma system without a trequartista, and like you said the gap behind Toni is where the problem lies. I hope I'm wrong and he does change things around but its unlikely. Brining in one from Perrotta, Aquilani or even Camoranesi as the attacking-midfielder would no doubt help rectify the problem.

I was certainly critical of Toni last night, and while he was isolated up there on his own and not getting any help from the midfielders, I still think he was way below what is required of him and you could probably count the amount of times he held up the ball and laid it off in one hand.

[Italiamia]

Don-believable
Italy flopped in their Euro 2008 opener against Holland and – as Antonio Labbate suggests – Coach Roberto Donadoni must take some of the responsibility


Roberto Donadoni was the biggest loser in Berne on Monday night. Of that there is little doubt. The majority of his players clearly under-performed, for which the tactician had no total control over, but the Coach is – understandably – being targeted as the man responsible for Italy’s morale crushing 3-0 defeat for his actions before, during and after the game.

The Holland debacle was barely over when opinionista Franco Melli went on an Italian football TV show and demanded that Donadoni be relieved of his duties. That reaction was a bit over the top, but it was a clear indication that the former Milan winger would be put on trial by the media.

Had Donadoni really been up in front of a judge today then he would have, like his Italian side last night, been defenceless. His decision to field Marco Materazzi, who by most accounts hasn’t been looking too sharp in training, made a mockery of the now myth that Italians do it better when it comes to defending. Oh how Italy could do with a Gaetano Scirea or a Franco Baresi now…

Then one has to ask how wise it was for Donadoni to not look to offer greater protection to a rearguard already orphaned of Fabio Cannavaro by leaving out Daniele De Rossi. The Roman, Italy’s best all-round midfielder, has just enjoyed his most impressive domestic campaign of his career. Yet he was ludicrously omitted in favour of the Milan block who had just ended the season with the embarrassment of UEFA Cup qualification.

Okay, so it’s easy to criticise with the advantage of hindsight. And there is obviously no guarantee that De Rossi would have changed the outcome of the game. Given that so many players wilted, a loss would have probably still been the result.

But what about Don’s tardiness when it came to his substitutions during the 90 minutes? Just what had Donadoni seen in the first half to believe that he didn’t need to freshen things up at the interval? tender Alex The Waterboy and Antonio Cassano, thrown on in a true sign of desperation, are going to need more than 25 and 15 minutes respectively to save you the game.

Yet the most extraordinary thing about the whole evening was the way that Donadoni capped it off. When asked why De Rossi didn’t start as expected, he – in Roberto Mancini style – claimed it wasn’t his fault if journalists got their probable line-ups wrong. It was a nice line, but one which was greeted with a tumbleweed roll. Just in case the CT doesn’t realise it, Italy’s Euro 2008 hopes hang by a thread and it’s no laughing matter.

channel4.com

[Bagg10]

i wonder if they are trying to make a statement?

[p_maldini_3]

body language wise they're all pissed at him...

[Italiamia]

[oily]

[Italiamia]

[SuperPippo9]

[p_maldini_3]

[Italiamia]

[p_maldini_3]

[p_maldini_3]

[Italiamia]

[marco]

[Italiamia]