Calciopoli information

[morra10]

[Italiamia]

[juventino_italiano]

[ju29ro]

[morra10]

[Italiamia]

[ju29ro]

[Zoff82]

Eeek ju. I was looking forward to a new member on this forum (morra and bagg suck, [kidding]) but clearly you're here to discuss Juve and "shine some light" on the calciopoli. I'm a Juve fan myself (made from raw, bianconeri material, not "synthetic like the stuff out today") but I won't get my hopes up with the testimonies of the 2 you mentioned vs Moratti. I like to read about what you write and it is quite interesting. There is actually 2 sides to that whole saga but I am still in middle. I hate beating a dead horse and discussing this but I can tell you one thing: Ita doesn't have the time, patience or open mind to debate with a Juventino. If I were you, I wouldn't even bother. I can tell you this, it is going to result in insults and it will get ugly. Not that I care, you guys can argue all you want but I think you provide some good inside stuff on it. I'm not one to believe anything I read and usually base my thoughts on notable, reliable information. I need to see clinical studies and statistics from primary sources before I put my patients on medications.

Sarcasm from Ita's last sentence was noted.

[Bagg10]

[marco]

[ju29ro]

[morra10]

[ju29ro]

I've told Sav a lot more than that. I'm not the guy that writes for a paper by the way.

If it turns to insults it wouldn't shock me. It wouldn't be the first time. The problem is many people need to believe that Juventus fixed matches to justify their team's inferiority at the time.

I say keep an open mind and embrace facts and evidence. They might not always be convenient. When I learned of Juve’s role I certainly wasn’t proud, but when people say “they cheatedâ€

[arthurfonzarelli]

[quote="ju29ro"]I've told Sav a lot more than that. I'm not the guy that writes for a paper by the way.

If it turns to insults it wouldn't shock me. It wouldn't be the first time. The problem is many people need to believe that Juventus fixed matches to justify their team's inferiority at the time.

I say keep an open mind and embrace facts and evidence. They might not always be convenient. When I learned of Juve’s role I certainly wasn’t proud, but when people say “they cheatedâ€

[Zoff82]

The bolded part is something that I have contemplated for quite some time and Moratti is the biggest one of them all. Now he's all smiles, laughing, blah blah blah now that he knows the league is his and solely his. I'd say that part makes the most sense but weren't there reports in the trial stating that there were bribes going on, etc?? The way evidence and such came about made it sound like something straight out of a mafia movie. How 1 man can do all this is beyond me and OBVIOUSLY other teams such as Fiore, Milan, etc were involved. I'm not one to dispute facts and events that occurred but you can dispute the strength of the evidence, IE how was all this information accumulated and used in court?? Was it taken out of context?? Were the voice tapes edited from bits and pieces to suggest something else was going on (kinda like how maro edits our posts)??? I don't know ju but as a Juve fan I just couldn't see 1 man doing all these things and having all this power. Apparently someone was left out of this circle of benefit and was very jealous about it. The evidence and how this one man had so much power sounds so fictitious. This wouldn't happen in any other league or in any other sport. Not even Abramovic can have this much power in the EPL with his unlimited money.

[ju29ro]

Actually in that bolded part I was referring more to Juventus haters that are clinging to the notion that their team lost because Juventus cheated but that doesn't discount your interpretation as I am sure Moratti wanted Juve's success. He did try and lure Moggi to Inter not too long ago.


"weren't there reports in the trial stating that there were bribes going on, etc??"


Nope. The opposite actually. I can provide the sentence for anyone that reads Italian and I created a mini key that states what lines are found where. It is in PDF. First I'll check the FIGC website to see if it is still in the archive section. That's where I got it. You'll read how there was not even an attempt at any of that. In the sentence you will read a tonne of contradictions such as, "Moggi used influence to select referees but referee selections were done in accordance with the rules of the league", "Juventus benefitted in the standings because of a polluted environment in the league but no games were fixed", "there are no fixed matches and the season was legitimate but Juve are hereby relegated to Serie B with a 30 point penalty".


Federal Court Judge Piero Sandulli had an interview in “Il Giornaleâ€

[Italiamia]

Obviously ju you have made the vindication of rubentus your life's work. I cannot address everything you have posted because I do not have the time at this moment. However, it is well presented, even though I cannot agree. I find it interesting that juve's lawyer made a deal with the tribunal to accept relegation to Serie B. He did not agree to a points deduction which was the reason for the appeals, but if nothing happened, and it was all a set up as you claim, then why did Moggi refuse to testify before the tribunal or cooperate with juventus? Moggi did nothing to aid juventus in the defense before the tribunal. In additon, after the juve legal team had the opportunity to review the evidence, why then would they seek a deal with the tribunal to accept the charges against the club and further, accept relegation. There is no question that is what happened and you cannot tell me that juve, one of the biggest clubs in the world, did not have the resources to fight the charges. I think the answer is that they could not defend the charges.

Moggi to this day has refused to cooperate with the club. He would rather make incendiary comments to the press. That is easy to do when you are not under oath.

[marco]

...or you pry antonio conte away from moggi's left testicle to come in and help with the unwarranted, unprovoked personal insults.

[marco]

"It also benefitted FIAT and this is the part that makes me sick. It's the part that few Juventini are willing to talk about. There are elements of the new regime at Juve that supported what happened. If you guys want details let me know. I won't bore you with a long story if no one cares."

i can understand how it may have allegedly 'benefitted' those other entities you mentioned, but could you shed some light on how it would have benefitted fiat? at a glance it doesnt make much sense to me.

[ju29ro]

"I find it interesting that juve's lawyer made a deal with the tribunal to accept relegation to Serie B."


I find it unethical and appauling. I actually have a video interview where Cobolli Gigli admits that he and Juventus' lawyer Zaccone knew full well that they were accepting a sentence that was way beyond what it should have been but accepted it anyway for the "greater good".


"why did Moggi refuse to testify before the tribunal or cooperate with juventus?"


He didn't refuse to testify. In fact he was the first one interrogated. He refused to co-operate with Juventus because he a) wanted a lawyer that would protect him, and b) realized that he had been set up by Montezemolo and the Elkanns. Are you aware that Montezemolo and the Inter crew are very close friends? In fact he is in business with Tronchetti and Massimo Moratti's brother at CONFINDUSTRIA where all sit on the board.


"Moggi did nothing to aid juventus in the defense before the tribunal."


He's the only one still fighting actually. He is appealing in teh State Council next.



"In additon, after the juve legal team had the opportunity to review the evidence, why then would they seek a deal with the tribunal to accept the charges against the club and further, accept relegation. There is no question that is what happened and you cannot tell me that juve, one of the biggest clubs in the world, did not have the resources to fight the charges. I think the answer is that they could not defend the charges."


In a little while I will post a longer explanation that identifies all these points. For now know that Juventus did create an appeal for the TAR Regional Court that would have turned the league over on it's ear according to legal analysts. Hours prior to taking the stand the team retracted the appeal. No one knew why. Then Montezemolo was thanked publically be Stefano Melandri (Italian Sports Minister) for having forced Juve to lie down and accept the relegation. I have the appeal if it interests you.





"Moggi to this day has refused to cooperate with the club."

Montezemolo, Gigli, Blanc, and the Elkanns were his enemies long before Calciopoli. Of course he won;t co-operate. I even have a call where Moggi tells Giraudo that Montezemolo "wants to get rid of us". There was an internal feud at Juve for financial control between the team's management and FIAT for 5 or 6 years before Calciopoli.