THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi I

[maro]

Shield, I bet it's O'Brien, then.

Surely selling Mancini at this stage would be insane? Sell him over the summer, sure, but surely he's going to offer us plenty just in the CL, if nothing else and you'd think Spags has a sense that we could do something special there still? Even if Spags has decided that someone like Vooch can offer us the same sort of thing on the left - and I wonder if Esposito, too, might not actually be best suited to playing there, with Perrotta and Taddei the other trequartisti (on the basis that he's probably more offensively minded than the other two, can probably offer us more goals, and would fit the right-sided player on the left which Spags likes without a real aerial threat in the middle) - it's not as though the squad is stacked with quality alternatives. I see Vooch missed training today which may complicate the Avvocato's formulation for the weekend but it will be interesting to see how things unfold. Certainly Mancini isn't quite as indispensible, it seems, as Spags once considered him, no doubt in my mind because he's got a bit lazy. Still, this squad isn't exactly over-flowing with technical brilliance and when he's on a roll he's offered us goals in a way that no-one other than Totti has done.

[vtec]

[edge_xeno]

I hate to say that Aba, but Maniche is now officially a Inter Milan player.

[RomaShield27]

Ha, poor old Aba. Maybe now he will become an Interisti.

Maro, I don't know what to say to all the comments of the Romanisti over on the Offside who are in favour of us taking the Man City deal for Mancini. You said it perfectly, why would we sacrifice a starting trequartista (or winger) for a third-choice striker and some cash mid-season...?

[maro]

Well, to be honest, Shield, I'm not totally sure what I think about it; certainly, though, I can only shake my head in amazement at the sense over there that this is some kind of no-brainer. It depends a lot on things we can't really know - what Mancini contributes in the locker-room; what Spags and others think of the chances that he'll extend; whether there's a sense that he'll go for more over the summer because there will be CL clubs interested or much less because with only a year left on the contract we'll be able to be held to ransom. And it also depends on how Spags thinks Vooch and Esposito fit into the wider scheme of things. It is possible that he's realised that he can only really ever play one of Mancini, Vooch, Mauro, and Ludovic at a time (as a trequartista, I mean). And so a number of the alternatives he brought in over the summer don't actually work as alternatives, particularly if playing any of those four on the right means he's not going to play Cicinho behind them. It's been pretty interesting to see him stretching to fit Cassetti and Tonetto in as trequartisti just to get what he feels is the balance of the side right.

On the other hand, surely there's a very strong sense that Mancini's name is one of the first on the team-sheet in our 4-2-3-1 with everyone fit and firing? Vooch's form has made him an increasingly important part of the squad, but part of what he offers is as an important alternative to Mancini and Totti rather than as a clean substitute for either of them.

[RomaShield27]

More transfer musings...

VIERI, on its tracks Rome and Manchester City
- Bobo's contract with viola will be expired next summer, Roma might get him as the third striker.


Antonino Pulvirenti: "Vargas could go to Rome."
The President of Catania, Antonino Pulvirenti, spoke to Radio Kiss Kiss, speaks clearly: "Vargas could go to Rome." The number one Etnean expressed his opinion about one of the players followed the giallorossi for future market windows. "Having bought Vargas was not about mine, but of Peter Lo Monaco, our sports director. Its transfer to Rome? Might even go there, the player is ready for a great team."


Rome, no to Bianchi for Mancini
After ok Sven Goran Eriksson, Manchester City and Rome are preparing to sit down around a table to discuss Amantino Mancini (27). The British estimate of the player 24 million, and how that would include Rolando Bianchi (estimated 13 million euros) in the negotiations. The Roma did not like too much the tip former Reggina, or at least is willing to evaluate it much less (between 5 and 6 million, maximum): The rest should be paid cash. For the moment, in short, the agreement seems anything but close.

[marco]

please dont tell me the arjen robben rumours are dead. i could use a few more laughs.

i'm pretty impressed with what i've seen of vargas, which admittedly is not too much. however, i really dont see him being a transfer objective with the intention of having to fill immediate holes in the current squad, which is typically the case in a january transfer window. it makes sense longterm as tonetto phases out but i always thought zambrotta would look pretty sharp in our glorious jersey.

[Italiamia]

Eriksson: 'Voglio subito Mancini'
Mer 09 Gen, 08:00 PM


La Roma rischia di perdere Amantino Mancini già nel corso di questo mercato di gennaio. Il tecnico svedese del Manchester City, Sven Goran Eriksson ha dichiarato in un'intervista al quotidiano Il Romanista: "Mancini è l'ideale per rinforzare la squadra, può diventare il nostro Cristiano Ronaldo. So che la trattativa per il rinnovo del contratto con la Roma è a un punto morto, ma non abbiamo ancora parlato con il suo agente Gilmar Veloz. I soldi per noi non sono un problema, bisogna vedere se la Roma lo vende".
_______________

Who was it that said a rumour is just an uncomfirmed fact?

[RomaShield27]

From Wank City's



09/01/2008 17:24

Sven-Goran Eriksson has emphatically denied that he has any interest in Roma winger Amantino Mancini. Quotes attributed to the City manager, saying that he wanted to sign the 27-year-old, appeared in Il Romanista and have been repeated elsewhere, but Eriksson states firmly that he has not spoken to anyone about him.

“I don’t know where that has come from, it must have come from Roma. I have never spoken about that player with anyone,â€

[maro]

From today's IlRomanista:

(AS_ROMA | 10/01/2008) - GIANLUCA PIACENTINI
Mancini e la Roma, qualcosa si muove. Lunedì prossimo, infatti, arriverà nella capitale Gilmar Veloz. Il procuratore del brasiliano domenica sarà in Italia per seguire da vicino l’altro suo assistito, Pato, e con l’occasione sbarcherà a Roma. Per incontrarsi con Mancini, ma non è escluso che possa esserci un incontro anche con la dirigenza giallorossa per decidere del futuro di Amantino. Se l’incontro con la dirigenza romanista dovesse saltare, sarebbe un ulteriore segnale di rottura tra le parti, che non si sentono da mesi. Il futuro di Mancini si annuncia comunque lontano dalla capitale, perché il brasiliano in questi giorni ha maturato la decisione di andare via, subito o al massimo a giugno. Dove? In Spagna, Francia o Inghilterra, basta che la sua nuova destinazione sia di prima fascia. Andrebbero bene, insomma, sia il Lione sia il Liverfekkin'wankscum, che si erano già fatte vive l’estate scorsa, ma anche il Manchester City di Eriksson, che è uscito allo scoperto negli ultimi giorni con una vera e propria dichiarazione d’amore nei confronti del giocatore, paragonato addirittura a Cristiano Ronaldo. Tutte società, queste, disposte a garantirgli anche uno stipendio da top player, come lui vuole. Sicuramente più dei due milioni e mezzo di euro netti a stagione (esclusi i premi), che gli ha offerto la Roma. Cifra non bassa in assoluto, ma che Mancini non reputa adeguata a un giocatore del suo livello. E poi il brasiliano (e il suo procuratore) non hanno dimenticato una vecchia promessa di adeguamento fatta dalla società, risalente alla stagione 2004-2005. Promessa che non è stata mai mantenuta. Questo dirà Veloz quando incontrerà i dirigenti giallorossi, e a quel punto la rottura sarà totale e definitiva.
Nell’ultimo periodo Mancini, che ha sempre detto di voler rimanere in giallorosso e che proprio per questo motivo ha avuto dei contrasti anche pesanti con Veloz, ha infatti capito che la sua avventura con la Roma è arrivata al capolinea. Le voci di mercato che lo hanno visto protagonista in questi giorni e la reazione che hanno avuto la piazza (e la società) alla sua possibile cessione lo hanno convinto che per Roma e per la Roma non è più considerato un giocatore importante. O almeno, non importante come lo era fino a qualche tempo fa. Il brasiliano sa che se oggi dovesse arrivare a Trigoria la stessa offerta, poco più di 20 milioni di euro, arrivata negli ultimi giorni del mercato estivo, la società difficilmente direbbe di no come ha fatto con il Lione. Mancini, che ha comprato casa a Roma e che ha intenzione di vivere per sempre qui anche dopo la fine della sua carriera, si sente tradito dalla società e scaricato da una parte del pubblico. Si sente trattato come Cassano e Chivu, giocatori che sono stati portati a scadenza di contratto e poi venduti.
A questo punto la Roma, che non offrirà più soldi di quelli che ha già offerto, ha davanti a sé due possibilità. Cedere il giocatore fin da subito o aspettare giugno, con il rischio però di perderlo a pochi milioni di euro con la clausola Fifa se il giocatore decidesse di accettare un’offerta dall’estero. La prima ipotesi è poco percorribile, anche se la Roma ci ha pensato, soprattutto perché il mercato offre pochi sostituti all’altezza. La strada che portava a Robben si è interrotta subito. L’olandese a Madrid è considerato un vero e proprio flop: arrivato dal Chelsea per 36 milioni, non ha convinto nessuno. Il Real, in virtù dei buoni rapporti che ci sono tra le due società dopo le trattative per Chivu e per Cicinho, lo avrebbe anche fatto partire in prestito. Un accordo tra le due società era stato trovato ma il giocatore si è opposto perché aveva paura che un nuovo trasferimento (e quindi un nuovo periodo di ambientamento in una squadra come la Roma) gli avrebbe fatto perdere il posto per gli Europei. L’elevato ingaggio, 4 milioni a stagione, ha fatto il resto. La seconda strada porta a Di Natale, ma l’Udinese a gennaio con tutta probabilità non lo cederebbe nemmeno se la Roma si presentasse col valigione pieno di soldi. La cosa certa, comunque, è che la questione-Mancini deve essere risolta il prima possibile. Anche perché non conviene a nessuno che Mancini rimanga a Roma contro la sua volontà.

[RomaShield27]

And, if you can, give a brief translation for us Irish-only speakers...? Thanks.

[maro]

Oh, sorry. Veloz is going to be in Rome on Monday after seeing P(ot)ato through his debut and there may or may not be a meeting. Either way, it looks like it's all over for Mancini. He wants more cash than we're going to be prepared to offer. He feels unloved and let-down by the fans and the societa'. He increasingly feels that he's no longer considered an important part of the set-up. He loves Rome, has bought a house there and is planning to live there post-football and so feels a bit betrayed. Still, he's prepared to go to any big club in Spain, France, or England. And there's a sense that were the 20mil euro offer from Lyon to reappear at this stage it would be considered very seriously rather than laughed out of court as it was in August. We're tempted to let him go now except that we wouldn't be able to get a suitable replacement in. One of the interesting bits is on Robben - it's suggesting that Real consider him a flop and were prepared to loan him out to us but he refused the deal because he didn't want to have to settle in at another new club and risk his place at Euro 2008. Oh, and then there's the fact that his wages are 4 mil and we're moving Mancini on because he wants 2.5. I love the way Real can spend 35 mil on a player and then loan him out - just as I love the way the Interisti talk about their recent financial prudence and Mancini's great man-management skills when they can afford to let him take 6 months (actually a year) off to get his head together. We loan out Okaka and Rosi; they loan out Adriano or Robben.

[Lombardiamia]

[maro]

[Lombardiamia]

[RomaShield27]

Nice one for the translation Maro. If Mancini loves Rome and has a bought a house here then why is not prepared to find a solution to stay? Or perhaps he is doing so but finding it difficult to feel like Roma actually does want to keep him? We haven't even organised a proper meeting and sat down with him to offer him a contract – even though Rosella and Prade have been saying we are going to since last November – so how do we know we can't find an agreement which suits all parties so he may stay at Roma? I'm sorry, I'm just very critical of the whole thing, and it seems to me like Rosella is waiting this one out to see how things develop, and if a big offer does come in she will be more than happy to cash in while appeasing the fans by saying 'he didn't want to extent', thereby making him look like the bad guy in the process. I repeat, we haven't even offered him a new deal. To fuck with what his agent says. No more stalling, we need to offer him a deal, and if its rejected, then selll him on for the best possible deal.

Maro, would you believe that piece from Il Romanista, from what his agent is saying, and that "it looks like it's all over for Mancini"? I certainly would have my doubts.

I'm not as willing to see him go to Citeh for this deal which the media is harping on about (altough now it looks like Ericksson ain't that interested after all – I wonder where Il Romanista got those 'quotes' from him yesterday...? They couldn't of made them up could they...), and certainly not as willing as those over on The Offside... Yeah, lets sell him now, in part exchange for Bianchi, and buy Vargas and whoever else in the summer. Thats great. In the summer? We're still in with a good shout of the scudetto THIS SEASON, and a good chance with a good run in the CL (we're well capable of beating Real), so can we really risk all that by selling on one of our best players now because the hint of a good offer comes in? Also think of the prize-money we get for winning either competition. And we definitely won't have time to find a replacement, not with the way we negotiate deals. Mancini hasn't refused any deal – because we haven't offered him one – so he may still stay. If not, sell him at the end of the season, his contract ain't up until the summer of '09, whats the freakin rush?

[maro]

Shield, this is probably the most important chunk:
Nell’ultimo periodo Mancini, che ha sempre detto di voler rimanere in giallorosso e che proprio per questo motivo ha avuto dei contrasti anche pesanti con Veloz, ha infatti capito che la sua avventura con la Roma è arrivata al capolinea. Le voci di mercato che lo hanno visto protagonista in questi giorni e la reazione che hanno avuto la piazza (e la società) alla sua possibile cessione lo hanno convinto che per Roma e per la Roma non è più considerato un giocatore importante. O almeno, non importante come lo era fino a qualche tempo fa. Il brasiliano sa che se oggi dovesse arrivare a Trigoria la stessa offerta, poco più di 20 milioni di euro, arrivata negli ultimi giorni del mercato estivo, la società difficilmente direbbe di no come ha fatto con il Lione. Mancini, che ha comprato casa a Roma e che ha intenzione di vivere per sempre qui anche dopo la fine della sua carriera, si sente tradito dalla società e scaricato da una parte del pubblico. Si sente trattato come Cassano e Chivu, giocatori che sono stati portati a scadenza di contratto e poi venduti.

"In recent times Mancini, who has always said that his desire was to stay with Roma and for that reason too has had some "contrasti pesanti" with Veloz, has come to understand that his adventure with Roma has come to the end of the line. The transfer rumours which have been surrounding him over the past few days, together with the reaction with which they've been met in Rome, have convinced him that for Rome and for Roma (for both tifosi e societa', is the implication), he is no longer considered a key player (un giocatore importante). Or, at least, not important in the way he had been seen until recently. The Brazilian knows that were there to arrive today the same offer that Lyon made in August (negli ultimi giorni del mercato estivo), the club would find it hard to turn down. Mancini, who has bought a house in Rome and who has the intention to live there "per sempre" after the end of his career, feels betrayed by the club and "scaricato" [what's the best translation for this? under-appreciated? let down?] by the fans. He thinks he's being treated like another Cassano or Chivu, players who were held onto until the expiration of their contracts and then sold."

Which, of course, is almost exactly what you're saying. Are you sure there hasn't even been an offer made? I'm pretty sure the situation is the same as Chivu's - Rosella knows the offer that will be made and the demands Mancini will make and the divide isn't going to be bridged. So in a sense it matters little unless Mancini suddenly decides he's going to budge. Part of the problem, no doubt, is that he wants to be the star of the show and the special treatment the Romani are always going to be given makes this impossible. He's clearly a tender soul who feels a bit jealous, not entirely unfairly, of Totti. Honestly, I think he's gone, though probably over the summer rather than now. And I shall be sad to see him go. The club has its financial policies, for better or for worse, and that's pretty much the end of it. For the worse, we lose players like Chivu and Mancini (if Spags does spend a chunk of cash over the summer to bring Lucio in as a third top-drawer centre-back with whom he then runs a rotation policy without changing the shape at the back, then Populusque will at least have to let me shed one tear that the Juan AND Chivu option was so summarily excluded) because we're not prepared to pay the inflated wages the top clubs are offering (Wes Brown is supposedly turning down a 50000 pound a week contract because he deserves more!?!?!?!). On the other hand, it means we don't make signings like Real's Arjen Robben or any number of Chelski's or Real's or Barca's or Inter's over the years (or, perhaps, like Milan's signing of Emerdason, say). That is, it's very tricky to determine whether a Chivu really is worth that much more than a Juan or a Mancini than a Di Natale (or whoever it is), since the margins are small and questions like motivation and injuries and team-work and team-spirit are so desperately hard to evaluate objectively. Who is a better trequartista at this point in time, Taddei or Ronaldinho? Perhaps it's just that Ronnie's playing up because he wants a move but perhaps it's that he's lost the edge that came with wanting to be the best? Would Henry start ahead of Iaquinta or Eduardo or Adebayor at this particular point in time? etc. etc.

On the other hand, I'm prepared to bet we wouldn't be seven points behind Inter had we hung onto Chivu over the summer (as well as acquiring Juan), and being just one point ahead of them at the end of the season would be worth one heck of a lot of dosh in my mind.

[RomaShield27]

As far as I'm aware we haven't actually offered him an extension. Maybe your right in saying it doesn't really matter either way if we have or not, but I believe it is only recently that we are hearing that he wants more cash than we're going to be prepared to offer, and my point is we don't even know exactly what he does want. We could offer him the maximum wage allowed by our self-imposed salary 'cap' (even though this 'cap' doesn't apply to De Rossi, who is also quietly negotiating his new (eventual) €5m-a-year deal – what do you think Mancini thinks about that?), and then see if he is prepared to talk with us and settle for this deal. If nothing, at least it would show an effort on the part of Roma that he is still wanted. But maybe that is not the case with our management, who are just seeing the €€€ role in once again. If that is the case then so be it, I will also be sad to see him go. But not until the summer. Not 'till the end of this season.

Incidentally, what is our salary 'cap' limit (for non-Romans*)? Is it roughly €2.5m-a-year, which breaks down to (roughly) €50,000-a-week, before tax? Is that right?

* Perhaps it should be called 'The non-Roman Salary Sap' (NRSC).

[Italiamia]

[aba_bab]