THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[RomaShield27]

[maro]

No Florenzi and DDR? Perhaps Sabreteeny's plan is actually to play Iturbe through the middle this year and the whole Dzeko saga is a smoke-screen?

[Italiamia]

Milan has offered €28 million for Romagnoli and reports indicate that the transfer is about to take place. These reports are not of questionable veracity. If this happens, my over 4 decades of following Roma will be at an end. I simply cannot continue to expend time and energy supporting a philosophy that places no value on home grown talent, particularly, Romans who grew up as Roma fans and were fortunate enough to possess the talent to grow through the Roma youth system. I will not and cannot support a foreign squad and foreign coach with foreign ownership and watch the destruction of Roma's identity. I do not subscribe to Dino Viola's entrenched position that the shield is what's important and not the players who wear the shield.

Some of you will think me stubborn and short sighted, born of a different generation, growing up in a different era. To most of you, the 1970's and 1980's are just numbers on a piece of paper without any special significance. That was a time when players lived among the fans, shopped at the same stores, drove the same cars, and used the same toilet paper. Now, calcio is a business. Money drives the system and loyalty is a four letter word. It's a shame that it may end this way for me and some may ask how can a fan like me just leave. All I can say is that I did not leave Roma; Roma has left me.

[DCGweez]

I'm with you on this Gio, i hope he stays. I do think he wants out though, i don't think he'd be shoved out the door. I think if he wanted to stay it wouldn't even be an issue.

[RomaShield27]

Great post Gio, that is why we put up with all the cantankerous old trollop you usually spout, aha. Seriously, well said my old friend. For me, Roma is something special because it is Roma. We all know what it stands for, the history, the heritage, what it represents. New foreign owners coming in was always going to be touchy, but they've done ok, yet more and more it loses that identity. Part of it it is modern football and business and all that, yet there is more to it, a side which is unable to comprehend just what makes Roma unique.

DC, I disagree, the club have made it clear in the last few weeks that they will sell him for €30m or close to that. That, despite Sabatini saying a month ago they he "can't be sold". Where do you think these big decisions are coming from? They just see Romagnoli as a bonus, a big chunk of profit, plusvalenza, just another player. Yet, he is more than that, but they can't understand it.

[RomaShield27]

[maro]

Interesting, threadmund - the first post rather than the second since I'm not sure that's really got a heck of a lot to do with orthography, pace the AS Roma English twitterer. I have been thinking rather more along the lines of DCG - that one of the things that emerges for me here is that Romagnoli is rather less fully a Romanista than the three other Romans on show tonight are. So I've been rather struck by the absence of any comment from him about his desire to say (that may be unfair to expect, but it's still been noted); there was a comment a few weeks ago by one of the radio pundits in Rome about how Roma didn't seem to be the pinnacle for players like Bertolacci or Romagnoli which is surprising and revealing; and there was a little ironic comment in another of the forzaroma pieces a couple of days ago about Romagnoli being a Romanista, but not quite such a blind one as others. Of course it may be that that's because this 'Roma' isn't the same as the old one was - that it hardly inspires the same sort of passionate loyalty from a local kid because they know that that kind of loyalty and passion isn't returned. I was certainly taken aback, though, by Bertolacci's comment that Milan was what he'd always dreamed of - not one word of wistful looking back to Roma in his press conference. And my hunch with Romagnoli is that he's too much of a modern-day professional - hell, Bilan's hardly a bad prospect; if he excels there his chances of a long-term Azzurri role remain very high; and what's the difference between a successful career at Bilan and a successful career at Roma, really? That does suggest how much has changed, though - Roma would seem not to be the centre of his footballing universe, and that must hurt someone like gio more than anything. In such terms, Romagnoli's as complicit as Sabreteeny is in the deparochialising of Roma (for worse and for worse).

[RomaShield27]

I seen that comment too about how he grew up at Roma yet was not quite the same, (ma non tifoso scatenato della Roma). Its suggesting he was never quite a big Roma fan, yes? Was it an ironic comment, though? Or is it saying that because he is from Anzio, quite a good bit outside the city and so he may not have the same loyalties? Still strange, though, given his background and given he joined Roma at quite a young age and grew up there.

I'm guessing its likely he's being advised not to say anything (from his agent or family or whoever), given the stance the club has made on the situation, that they will sell if the price is right, and because of such unusual high interest from Milan. Clearly Mihajlovic is a big factor: they wouldn't be willing to pay such a silly high figure for a young player like that without him, and the relationship built up between player and manager while at Sampdoria must mean a lot. It does prickle, a little, though, at the possibility, that he, like Bertolacci, does see Milan as a 'step up', a sort of chance not to be missed. Though of course Bertolacci was a Milan fan as a kid, the same which can't be said about Romagnoli, despite the above comments about not being such a die-hard romanista as the others.

[Italiamia]

60 kilometri da centro di Roma ad Anzio. Come on. Now we're making excuses for Sabatini and Pallotta that a 20 year old kid is not really a Romanista because he's a bit outside the city. Fuck, Bruno Conti is from Nettuno. It's only 4 kilometri. I didn't know we measured a Romanista by distance. Hell, I'm from the farthest one could be from Roma. All the way down lo Stivale. I'm not providing cover for this pathetic d.s. if ours targeting all foreigners. Oh, my God, Romagnoli hasn't shed any blood on la Curva Sud so he's less than a Romano e Romanista.

[maro]

I think thredz was just trying to figure out what was behind that 'ma non tifoso scatenato della Roma', gio - and that phrase was one of the forzaroma punter's. Which doesn't, of course, mean it's true. I've been surprised that he hasn't been quoted once with one of those 'Most of all I want to represent Roma' comments that we've had from Totti and DDR and Florenzi in the past. Hell, Niggernoolan's been stirring up trouble this summer with a rehash of Totti's 'one title here is worth ten elsewhere' line. I suppose one way of putting it is that Romagnoli and Bertolacci seem to me symptoms of modern football culture rather than 'victims' of it (not bad to be such well-paid victims, of course). By which I mean the lack of loyalty to Roma and Romanisti and Romani sort of goes both ways. Of course it's tough if Myholybitch has shown so much more confidence in him than Rudi ever has. Perhaps seeing people like Greco and Rosi and Cerci and Curci fall by the way side has affected his sense of what 'Roma' is these days. Still, I've been struck that there hasn't been a single piece of 'please let me stay at the club I love' rhetoric from Romagnoli.

[DavidP]

30m is crazy money for a player like romagnoli. granted i didn't get to see him last season, but the alessio that played LB for us towards the end of garcia's first season wasn't a 30m player or even close to it. what happened last year and how he pulled a marquinhos is beyond me but if milan are willing to pay 30m for him, then he is worth keeping and building our defense around for years to come. as maro says, he is worth much more to us than he is to milan. for the record, i remember calling him a plastic 3 or 4 years ago when all i found on his FB page were pictures of beckham and rooney. someone here called me a knob

[maro]

Well, they didn't get that wrong, did they? Just kidding. Anyway, we know you're only mentioning offyourfacebook to get a rise from the old man. Can't you see his nerves are frayed enough as it is? It would be rather interesting to know what Garcia thinks of the kid. 30 mil is so absolutely insane as to make you think there must be something special there.

[maro]

The real question is is Digne worthy of Roma? And while we're at it, I've always thought the surest way to judge the quality of an establishment is by its Salah.

[DCGweez]

Both Saba and Rudi have said they want to keep Romagnoli. Romagnoli has said, "We'll see"

I think he wants to go to Milan. If that is because he was mistreated or simply isn't a Roma fan i doubt we'll know until the saga is over but i don't think he's being forced out like Marquinho or perhaps Lamela.

We'll have real problems with our squad if he leaves given the CL rules about homegrown and academy players.

[DavidP]

i think we should cut alessio some slack. what he needs is playing time, and if he's not going to get the opportunities at roma that he would at milan, we shouldn't hold it against him if he wants to go. if he does go on to be the future of the azzurri and the rossoneri, it'll be rudi we have to blame for letting him go rather than alessio for wanting to. didn't totti himself have one foot out the door under one of the coaches who didn't rate him? besides, what totti, ddr and others before them have done shouldn't be taken for granted and to expect the same of every roman is a little unfair.

[maro]

He should have more ambition than to settle for going to a mid-tier club which can guarantee him playing time. He should back himself to beat off the competition and be first choice at a big club.

[Italiamia]

You don't get it, do you, Davis.

Romagnoli is under contract with Roma. He only goes if Roma/Pallotta agrees. I have not read anywhere that he fancies a move to Milan and would like to leave Roma. You can interpret words the way you like but I see that nobody mentions the fact that the kid spends time after practice signing autographs, talking and taking pictures with Roma fans. Regardless, I expect him to be sold. First, Sabatini, and Garcia for that matter, look to load up on foreign players instead of Italians, and second, any Roman identity is not even on the list of priorities when it comes to a cash grab like one developing here with Romagnoli.

I am clenching my teeth in agreement with Tomasso about Bertolacci and Romagnoli being 'symptoms' of modern football instead of victims. The latter is so young that he probably won't piss with his pants on fire unless his parents tell him. Bertolacci publically stated that he wanted Milan. Again, it must be said that Roma is still viewed as a provincial club and not as a major player in European football.

Not that it means anything but Roma's ineptitude in these preseason friendly matches has not been seen since the 1954-55 season.

[Italiamia]

[maro]

There was a comment from Romagnoli to tifosi at Trigoria the other day - that's what DCG is referring to, I think: "vedremo," Alessio said when asked about his future, thereby fueling rather than dampening the speculation. I would really love to know what Garcia and Sabreteeny genuinely think of his quality; there was a comment on forzaroma today saying that for Garcia Mapou's third choice, Alessio fourth. It's rather too easy to think that that may well be the truth and I'd say that Ranieri, whatever his other faults, would be fighting rather harder to keep Alessio at this stage than a French Spaniard is likely to be.

[maro]

I guess the other way, for me, to put gio's point is that it's pretty easy to see why a kid who grew up close to Rome and within the Roma structures isn't actually a die-hard Romanista: our kids may grow up as Norwich fans, for obvious reasons, but they'll certainly have an ambient pressure to support the giallorossi and the All Blacks, however that actually plays out. On the other hand, the privileging of an Italian Roma and a Roman Roma might very well (gio and I would say ought to) come from the club hierarchy and in those sorts of circumstances someone like Romagnoli would appreciate that he was, well, appreciated in an altogether different way. If winning one scudetto with Roma is worth winning 10 elsewhere, as I bet Pallotta's used as a line at some stage over the past couple of years, then that's because of the club's commitment to its Romanitas and its Romani. One might put it this simply: winning a scudetto with Romagnoli is worth winning six with Castan and Manolas. That proposition might give one or two in the club something to think about. How much better than Cerci (of whom, of course, I've been much more critical than many) is Salah? How much better than Aquilani is Keita? How much better than Crescenzi is Holebas? Or how much better than Cerci is Ibarbo, for heaven's sake?

The real trouble, of course, is that 'local fan-base', 'passionate local support', 'club tradition' are all ideas, slightly vapid rhetorical turns for foreign fans and foreign owners - so we're back at the Verona-Chievo contrast on which I find Tim Parks so interesting. What you need is enough passionate local fans to create a terrific atmosphere inside the stadium for the much more numerous and much freer spending followers in Indonesia and Indiana, Australia and Austin to enjoy . . . .

Sport is not simply a business, as education is not - and, as ever and always, it is attending to the differences rather than the similarities that is the difficult and discerning task.