THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[Italiamia]

[AS Collie]

I can understand that totally, Gio. But from my experience violence and racism are two results of the same problem. Ignorant thugs in the stands and belligerent thugs in public office.

I do think the fines are a joke. €50,000 for Roma? I'm sure the squad could have had a whip around in the dressing room and paid it off right away. Points are the only thing would deducting. It would kill me to see Roma lose out like that, but if it stopped that sort of thing happening, it would be worth it.

[Italiamia]

[DCGweez]

Particularly for away games. Controlling your own stadium is one thing.

Controlling what people do while wearing your jersey in different cities is something entirely different.

[Italiamia]

[AS Collie]

[DCGweez]

I think the goal is to stop the Racism. So why punish the clubs?

I am embarrassed and ashamed that this happened with Roma fans. That said, i'm not interested in doing "something" if it's not the right something. Point deductions would surely punish everyone.

Why not put cameras in the stadium? Break up the supporters sections where these chants emanate from etc?

If it continues, clear the stadium for a game to punish the club and the supporters. All this is preferable to punishing the players (some of whom are being discriminated against and the fans)

Frankly, in the end doing nothing is preferable to doing the wrong "something". In the end it's just words, no matter how despicable those words are.

[Italiamia]

[red]

While it's not very nice, I can't get worked up about the non-violent stuff goes on at football (can't get that worked up about two groups of fans who want a fight having a fight either, for that matter).

While it would be better if it didn't happen, I view the stadium as a pretty harmless place for people to get whatever grievances they have off their chest.

I've never understood individuals who are hurt by things said by people whose opinions they don't respect.

[Italiamia]

I think I would agree with that, Red. As I said, too much is made of words, no matter how offensive. Again, it's not racism at all. The term should not be used under these circumstances. Clearly, violence in football is the more significant issue in my opinion.

[AS Collie]

Violence and racism in the stands are just two branches of the same ignorant tree. Of course they're just words, but they're repugnant and the grown men shouting them should know better. It makes the club look bad and tars us all with the same brush, because judging from the reaction to this sort of thing all the time, not everyone has such a relaxed attitude to it.

[RomaShield27]

I think the clubs should certainly be more severely punished if their fans are guilty of racist behaviour. The authorities and the FIGC clearly aren't interested in tackling the issue head on. They've been handing out these paltry fines for years now and obviously it has no effect on the fans or the clubs involved. Its an ongoing problem which simply put, is not just going to go away, and more has to be done.

If the lega brought in an automatic one point deduction on top of a large fine for every time racist chanting was heard by a set of fans, regardless whether they're at home or away, would that stop the chanting? I would say yes. An automatic one point deduction would badly hurt the club, and if it happened several times over the course of a sea on the points begin to add up. This would encourage each club to identify and deal with those responsible. Like Colly said, with all the control over every fan they have who attends games, identifying them would be easy. It was also discourage the fans themselves. Now, an fat idiot slobby racist is still going to be a fat idiot slobby racist, you can't change that so easily, but they would get discouraged from doing it if it harmed the team and there was a risk of being identified and banned from the stadio. Other fans would also discourage others from doing anything wrong, and it would lead to end of this sort of thing as a means to insult a player. There are plenty of others ways to do that without being racist.

“The public have a responsibility. Speaking about someone's skin colour in 2013 is wrong – it gives me the creeps. Unfortunately, some fans do things in stadiums that they wouldn't do otherwise. We have to make it clear that you cannot do that sort of thing in a stadium.”

Damiano Tommasi speaking about it. He's a great man, but this sounds like just more hollow words unless something concrete is done about it and its made clear you "cannot do that sort of thing in a stadium". So how else do you do that, if not more hardline action like I mentioned above?

[maro]

threadmund, you would seem to think that calling someone a black cunt is materially worse than calling them a dumb cunt or telling them their mum is a cum-guzzling whore. I'm just curious as to the grounds on which you'd maintain this distinction.

[RomaShield27]

I don't think thats materially worse, of course all insults are bad and should be frowned upon etc, but we're talking in football terms here, were racism is the issue. There's always going to be insults thrown about, the authorities can't stop that, but they can stop racism, or at least try to.

[AS Collie]

It's about the implied meaning, Maro. The negative connotations of being called an idiot are obvious; smart is better than dumb. The implications behind using someone's race as an insult are completely different, because to right-thinking people, white is no better than black.

So the question there would be, is it the "black" or the "cunt" that's meant as the insult? I'd argue that using black in that way presents the word as a sign in the Saussurean sense, with the obvious signified meaning being that the speaker thinks another race inferior to his. If it were being spoken in jest, as in Dublin slang for example where I might call a good friend a "X cunt", the signifier is different, even if the word is the same. It's the aggressive exclamation and the context of public confrontation that makes it so unpalatable at football games.

[DCGweez]

Lol, that Academic cunt Maro has grown bored with this convo and is attempting to delve into human nature and societal taboos.

Gio and I are being the good conservatives cunts that want less intervention and regulation.

Then there are the liberal Eyerish cunts who think we can make a nanny state to cure all the worlds ills.

[DCGweez]

At any rate, I hate to go off topic here and talk footy but has anyone else noticed that Udinese have once again finished above us in the standings even though they sell and we buy...

[AS Collie]

[DCGweez]

[AS Collie]