THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[RomaShield27]

Ok, so whats everyones thoughts on the racist chants we heard against Balotelli last night? A lot of our fans are idiots, right?

The thing is, what is actually racist?

All the all over the British media and beyond are full of it now: Balotelli racial abused; play stopped due to racist chants; backward Italy is backward; all Roma fans are racist pigs etc etc.

This issue has been going on all season, and not just with Roma fans, but also with Inter, Juve and more. It's a bigger issue than simply a matter of racism, it is to do with Italian society and more complex than meets the eye. I can't say I fully understand it, but it has been discussed in length in these pages and in both the Inter and Juve forums when they were accused of racism (and when they were also playing Balotelli, of course).

From what I gather, the chants sung were this: "Balotelli figlio di puttana" and "Se saltelli muore Balotelli" (son of a bitch, and if you hop he dies).

Now, nothing wrong with them, really, if you can tolerate that sort of thing, but it happens all the time, its just football banter. Balotelli is a idiot. He's easy to wind up and get him to do something stupid. The thing which I still don't understand is the monkey chant noises. Firstly, are they actually monkey chants, and secondly, are they intended to be racist?

I ask this because I think Italians make those noises not to be racist, but rather just to insult. I've witnessed this first hand, in the Curva Fiesole at Fiorentina v Inter, those chants being made at black players, and then the exact same chants being made at Cassano after he fucked up a chance or whatever. What is the story with that? To our ears it sounds racist, clear as day, monkey chants toward a black player, but does it have a different meaning or do Italians view it as something else? Just a way to insult someone, regardless of skin colour?

Its a complex and delicate issue for sure, and I can't say I fully understand it. I've yet to really see or hear a piece or explanation on it which clarifies exactly whats going on. I'd like to hear everyones thoughts on it, in particular Italiamia and Lomba, who know more about it than me.

[maro]

Is calling someone a black cunt or a Jewish cunt worse than simply calling them a cunt or a fat cunt?

[DavidP]

no.

[maro]

[maro]

[RomaShield27]

Some pieces about the racism:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... teng-italy
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ ... -1.1391573
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 13935.html
http://www.football-italia.net/34142/last-call-europe

Balotelli highlights v Roma. Monkey chants can be clearly heard a few times. Can anyone offer any thoughts or ideas which support them not being racist? Are they part of any chant (Balotelli figlio di puttana", "Se saltelli muore Balotelli") which I'm not getting?

[Italiamia]

[RomaShield27]

Those chants aren't racist at all. No one said they were. Its the so-called monkey chant noises which is the issue here. What is your view on them?

[Italiamia]

[AS Collie]

[RomaShield27]

[RomaShield27]

[Italiamia]

[Italiamia]

There is also a difference between racism and being a racist.

[AS Collie]

[Italiamia]

I am not sure I can accept that what a fan says at a football game serves as a reflection of the society of that nation or, a testament as to whom is governing that nation. A basically free nation, that is. The more press that is given to a few morons making noises at at game does more to fuel the behavior than simply by ignoring it. I know the mentality of some of these Ultra groups. For Christ sake, they love this media attention. The fact that something they did at a game actually had some substantive effect is celebrated by these people.

Let me throw this out for comparison purposes. There was a time in America that a few kook fans would run onto the field of play during a game simply for the attention by getting on television. Men and women. Sometimes they would be naked. The broadcast networks used to show this from the time the individual ran onto the field to the time he/she was apprehended. There would be the inevitable chase of this person around the field. The players would watch and laugh, the fans cheered, and the police and security would look like out of shape fools chasing this person up and down the field. After years of this shit, the networks decided not to show this on live television and would cut away from the spectacle. Now, this kind of thing never happens. Sometimes a simple solution is best. Don't give these people the press that they desire. Don't stop the match, don't punish the club whose fans behave in this fashion.

[RomaShield27]

Yeah Colly, I'm sure you're right, you would certainly know more than I, it probably isn't to do with Italian society alright and more down to the reasons you make, all good points.

Gio, hurling insults at players is part of the game, for sure, its what fans do, and we've all done it. However, when the insults turn racist its not acceptable in any shape or form, and the authorities need to realise that, and i think its not too far fetch to say the reaction to all this is quite the opposite of what you say: that too little is being made of it all. Roma received a €50,000 fine for the fans behavior. Thats solves that problem, right?

[RomaShield27]

Bedafeck, wasn't expecting this. I thought they'd keep quiet and conveniently ignore it all so as not to tarnish the global brand sales appeal yarn. I tell you what, this is in direct reaction to the outrage about all this which was made on social media. They simply had to say something.

AS ROMA STATEMENT
/ 05/13/2013

AS Roma condemns any form of racial abuse. This type of behavior from any football supporters, including ours, is completely unacceptable. We are committed to facing this issue head-on to rid our sport of this problem and promote respect for all.

[Italiamia]

[AS Collie]

The innocent fan is already being harmed by this behaviour. I'm treated like a piece of shit every game I go to because the police just see everyone going into the stadium as a piece of shit. I'm herded into turnstiles, made to carry a photo ID and scan myself into the ground, I'm searched and searched again and then when I get to my seat I get to watch a game in a half-empty ground because most people can't be bothered to go through all that hassle. And then when the subject comes up away from the ground, people look at me like I'm a thug because I express an interest in going to matches.

I know what you're saying Gio and I can appreciate where you're coming from, but with the different fan cards and heavy police presence at games, i'd argue that they're already legislating for behaviour. I just think that they could do it more effectively.

Every fan scanned into that game. They have names, addresses and photos on record. If they wanted to they could catch whoever did it and punish them accordingly.

The caveat I'd put with that, however, is that with stricter punishments there has to be a relaxation in the overall oppressive attitude towards normal fans. Otherwise all they'd do is penalise rather than rehabilitate.