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Not sure Giovinco needs to be played from a wing as much as he just needs freedom to wander.

Too often this season Giovinco has basically been occupying the CF position, which makes it easy for CBs to close him down.

One would hope that would change with the arrival of Llorente, as a proper CF who can occupy a defence and leave space for the SS to exploit.

Don't really see that much likelihood of 3-4-3. Would anticipate 4-3-3 coming back onto the agenda next season when Pepe is fit again, but probably only as an occasional thing or as a change to be made mid-game when Juve need a goal.

[p_maldini_3]

even though i think juve's transition game is one of the best, i think bayern's is also up there (especially when they lose the ball).

but they'll be missing javi martinez in the first leg, so that might help. although his replacement gustavo is just as mobile.

ps, in the context of counterattacking being your plan A.

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Gustavo is fantastic at defending counter-attacks.

Him playing might make Bayern a little less smooth in possession and present Juve with more counter-attacking chances a bit more often, but don't see it really weakening Bayern.

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Pretty decent performance there, particularly considering it was without a couple of key players.

Juve's movement of the ball was good in the first half, but they really missed the penetration that Lichtsteiner offers to take advantage of the good positions they got into. Without Lichtsteiner bursting beyond the defence, most of Juve's play was in pretty safe areas in front of Inter. Inter's left flank really was asking to be opened up as well, because Kovacic wasn't going out there, so Pereira was almost trying to play both Vidal and Padoin.

Guarin coming on changed the game. In the first half Inter couldn't get near to Juve in midfield because Alvarez just wasn't doing enough to help the two deeper players. Guarin coming on gave Inter more presence in there and allowed them to put much more pressure on the ball and it was putting pressure on Pirlo that led to them winning the ball just before the equaliser.

Juve managed to do two things that I hate to see from a team playing three CBs for the equaliser: first, they had CBs just standing deep and holding postion, marking no-one, instead of being more active in going out to mark or confront a forward; and second, Barzagli and Bonucci got themselves caught square so that Palacio was able to beat both of them with a single touch, which just shouldn't happen. Barzagli, even if he wasn't going follow Palacio all the way when he dropped deep, should have been at least five yards or so higher up the pitch so that he would be in a position where a touch taken by Palacio to beat him would be easy for Bonucci to deal with sweeping up behind. As it was, Barzagli was ball watching and only realised Palacio was moving forward at pace once it was too late to do anything much about it.

Still, Juve then reacted well to get the goal and were able to see the game out without Inter getting into too many overly dangerous situations.

Big win, as it would have been very easy for Juve to take their eye off this one with the Bayern game coming up.

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All sounding increasingly like it will be 3-5-1-1 against Bayern.

[p_maldini_3]

man for man, the bayern vs. juve midfield is pretty even if you ask me, physically juve might have a slight advantage, but bayern would make up for that with their technical superiority.

i can see pirlo getting a lot of space, especially if kroos is played as bayern's trequartista. even though i don't remember who was germany's trequartista in the euro semifinal between kroos or oezil, i still can't imagine kroos having the discipline to man-mark pirlo the entire game. although if it's mueller, it could turn out much differently.

having the 4 man midfield will give juve the extra man to try to dominate in the middle, hopefully it works out. marchisio should be more than a handful for the pig stickler.

should be a cracking game though, can't wait.

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It was Kroos that was trequartista for Germany against Italy. Oezil played from the right in that game.

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Well, not entirely sure what to make of that.

Bayern played okay and pressed reasonably well, but I thought Juve were pretty terrible.

It was apparent from early on that Bayern intended to step up the pitch to make it hard for Juve to play out from that back. However, they weren't pressing particularly ferociously or committing all that many players to the pressing. I thought Juve, with a little bit of guile, really ought to have been able to find a way to play out from the back.

However, once it was clear Juve were struggling to play out from the back, I didn't understand them not going longer: either playing short first, and inviting the Bayern press before going long long; or just going long straight away. Now, I wouldn't have expected Matri or Quagliarella to do a particularly fantastic job of holding the ball up, but if they put in a decent challenge, they could at least make it a situation where the ball was just dropping loose in midfield and Juve would have had the chance to pick up a reasonable number of those loose balls. Or Juve could have gone longer than that and looked for Matri to run in behind Bayern. That would have allowed Juve some sort of territory at times and would have given them the opportunity to try and press Bayern in their own half a little more often.That plan would at least have stopped giving the ball away in dangerous areas the way they did so often through the game - particularly in the fist half.

At half time, with things not going well, I didn't understand Conte not making a change. Juve, the way they were playing, might as well have only had nine men on the field because Matri and Quagliarella were not able to contribute anything. If Juve weren't going to play longer, I thought they should have gone to the 3-5-1-1 that had been spoken about a lot before the game, so that they at least had an extra body in midfield and only one player standing on the halfway line not contributing.

The only positives to be taken from the game are that Juve didn't capitulate after conceding early and that they did look capable of withstanding what Bayern had to throw at them on the occasions when Bayern were attacking in more normal circumstances and not when Juve had gifted them possession within thirty yards of goal.


Vucinic not being fit was clearly a huge blow given how reliant Juve are on him for ball retention, so it wasn't a surprise to see Juve struggling as they did. To take the weakest area of Juve's team and make it even weaker did mean that Bayern looked the clearly superior team on paper going into the game, where I don't think there is a big gap between the sides when both are at full strength. Llorente joining Juve in the summer should make Juve much harder for teams to press them, because they should be able to go long to him and play from there if playing out from the back is proving difficult.

[Zoff82]

Got to give credit where it's due. Bayern pressed Juve all over the field. They neutralized Pirlo throughout the whole game. Whenever Pirlo had the ball, 3 Bayern players closed him down. Juve did poorly passing the ball around. They gave it up too often and barely held possession. You don't win many games playing like Juve did. Bayern seemed more refreshed, better conditioned. They were too fast on the wings with Conte having no answers. They did play much better in the final 25 mins. I know Vidal and Lichsteiner are out but hopefully Caceres and Pogba will play. They need to lock down the play down the wings. Robbed and Ribery were having a field day. I expect Conte to have this team mentally and physically prepared next week. There's no doubt in my mind Juve will play it out with pride. This team has heart & guts. It isn't over yet. I'm surprised nobody is talking about that second goal .

[DCGweez]

Thought Clattenburg performed reasonably well. Anyone know what Juve are paying him? In the end Refs are bribed to affect the outcomes of games and he failed in that respect.

I hate to say it but Giroudo and Moggi are missed.

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[juventino_italiano]

[RomaShield27]

I don't think thats offside, actually. Aren't you meant to be able to see 'daylight' between the players? 50/05 call I suppose, very close, but the attacker should always get the benefit of the doubt (it most cases he doesn't).

Clattenburg let an awful lot go, he could have been a lot stricter, but I like lenient sorta refs, it cuts out a lot of the diving and playacting which players will try as they'll know they won't get the easy free. Like red said, Vidal was lucky not to get booked earlier, and Ribery was lucky not to see red for his chicken-shit kick on him. I thought Vidal was going to lose it and cripple him. Pity he didn't.

Vidal was a monster though, he has such a great engine on him and is a machine at closing people down. He had a few wayward passes but thats cos the gap between the midfield and the two forwards was too big at times and it was all he could do.

The system with the wing-backs clearly wasn't working, Bayern were closing down like mad and were just getting it wide and attacking down the flanks, and the wing-backs were either caught ahead of the ball or afraid to dive in and make a tackle, and Bayern had endless joy. Does Conti never try change his formation, switch to a flat back four? I think i remember Juve did in some games earlier this season. Thought it would have been a lot more secure.

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I don't know where the 'daylight' thing comes from with offside. If it was ever part of the rules, it isn't now. If any part of the forward (that he can legally play the ball with) is beyond the defender, it's offside.

Conte hasn't really shifted away from 3-5-2 this season.

He twisted it ttowards a back four away to Shakhtar, when Lichtsteiner played more like an orthodox RB, Chiellini played more like a LB and Asamoah moved towards LM.

He tried a similar move, but twisting things in the other direction last night. At the start of the second half, Barzagli was playing almost as a RB, pushing Lichtsteiner up into midfield and Peluso was more like a LB than a wingback. Marchisio was pushed towards LM to fill that gap, so it was quite close to 4-4-2 for a while.

The change worked to some extent, because Bayern weren't able to hurt on the flanks in the way they had in the first half, but Juve still weren't able to retain possession, which clearly was the main issue throughout.

[Bagg10]

Probable line-up against Bayern: Buffon;Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini;Padoin, Pogba, Pirlo, Marchisio, Asamoah;Vucinic, Quagliarella

I'd feel a lot more secure if Isla or Caceres (or Pepe :/) were match fit so they can start as RWB, but I guess we'll have to make due with Padoin.

If we score an early goal, we'll have a chance. But the longer we go without scoring, the harder it's going to get for us.

I want to say that the result will rely heavily on which Vucinic shows up, but in honesty we need everyone to show up. Marchisio hasn't been himself for most of this season, I'm hoping he'll step it up. I'm sure Buffon is going to fired up and looking to redeem himself, hopefully so will the rest of the back-line.

And I hope that Conte won't afraid to change to a 4-3-3, or make big moves. Like if Pirlo is having nearly as bad a game as he did in the last game, I'm hoping Conte won't be afraid to take him off.

That's my two cents for now. I'm not going to lie, I'm very pessimistic about our chances, but hopefully we can overturn this result. Or at the very least, go out with our heads held high.

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I don't see the need for an early goal (I am proceeding on the basis that the intention is to win the game 2-0, rather than looking at something incredibly unlikely happening).

I also wouldn't look for Juve to go taking too many risks early on, since a Bayern goal finishes the tie. Only if it is still 0-0 after an hour would I look for Juve to really open up and take a more gung-ho approach.

[Zoff82]

Well, Juve lacked a magician up front, a difference maker. Too many poor touches inside the box. A valiant effort from Juve but there's not much you could've expected being down 2-0 vs Bayern. I honestly thought Juve could beat Bayern but they just got destroyed after the first leg. Well, focus on wrapping up the scudetto. What is it? Win 3 more games or something like that?

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Yeah, something like that.

Decent effort from Juve, but I think we all knew Bayern were the better team before the tie, so the outcome is hardly a surprise.

Aside from the lack of the top-notch forward, I still have major doubts over whether 3-5-2 can be effective in Europe just now. I think there are just too many teams out there who play with wingers and attacking full-backs, and that makes for a very difficult game for a team playing 3-5-2.

At the start of tonight's game Juve were trying to press and force a tempo which led to them often being exposed three-on-three at the back when Bayern got the ball.

After a while, Bayern settled and Juve dropped a little, and Juve ended up being stuck with almost a back five and that meant it was very hard to ever get enough pressure on the ball to get in back from Bayern.

You could see Juve frantically shuffling back and fore to try and get a balance between playing a back three and a back five, but it's a difficult move to execute - there is almost inevitably a moment between the wing-back stepping up to the ful-lback and the centre-back moving to the winger where the team is going to be left exposed with neither player properly marked.

Things would be made easier if Juve had forwards that scared the opposition enough to make them always keep at least one full-back deep and tucked in to avoid being caught defending two-on-two, but I'm still not convinced of how much that would help the 3-5-2 against the very best teams.

[RomaShield27]

Poor showing from Juve. I didn't watch all the game, I switched over to Barca-PSG as soon as it became clear that Juve had no hope of winning this game. So about 15 minutes in, then. It was like watching a heavyweight boxing contest between a pretender who everyone knew had no chance and an old pro who was just toying with his opponent for the sake of occasion before eventually putting him out of his misery.

I think I agree with Red about the effectiveness of the 3-5-2. Domestically it can be successful against smaller, defensive sides, and it can get you results in big games were you can bide your time, but in Europe against the top teams there is no time to settle into games. With high playing pacey wingers attacking the flanks, centre-forwards running in behind, creative players running straight through the middle, and high-tempo and high pressing play in can be easily outplayed, as Bayern showed. Plus the wing-backs can be too easily caught out between attacking and defending, and the midfielders find it hard to link up to the forwards. With better forwards it may be more successful alright, not to mention natural wing-backs who have the engine to get up and down the wings for the entire game.