THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[maro]

I wonder if you still think it was absurd to suggest that Zeman had lost the players.

And does your principle of patience apply to players as well as to coaches? Poor Bradley would have loved a bit of your man-love.

[Italiamia]

[DCGweez]

[Italiamia]

I presented it as a fact because it was a fact. There was no speculation involved. Simply because you koolaid drinkers refused to believe it, or just did not want to believe it, does not make it misleading.

At this point, I am not sure I can credit Zeman with anything but making a spot open up for Romagnoli. Lamela was already a gifted player, Totti is Totti, and I frankly do not know what "reawakened" means. Florenzi had to be included and Marquinho is also a gifted player. Should we credit a coach for playing talented players? I also think it's fairly clear that some of the older players who have given much to Roma still have something to offer. Zeman's divide an conquer attidtude was very destructive and I think that is obvious after a month without the fucker on the bench. Andreazzoli, being a disciple of Spalletti, is going to do what is best for the team given the talent. I do not expect him to be the next coach at this point, but the motivation and the attitude has changed. Everyone can see that.

[DavidP]

it means got him into shape, giovanni. magnificent physical shape. motivated him. put him in the appropriate position. surrounded him with runners. totti was not totti with ranieri, or LE.

totti's reawakening was the only reason that could have justified zeman's presence on the bench after cagliari. at least in my humble opinion.

[RomaShield27]

Staying Zeman lost the dressing is still speculation. Neither the management nor the players said anything to indicate he did, not at the time when he was fired or since in any interviews. It was never mentioned as a reason for his firing. That was because of the results. To 'lose' the dressing room you have to lose the faith of the players, in most cases the faith of the more senior players, similar to the likes of what repeatedly happens at Chelsea, where Terry and Lampard and Co oust the oft ill-chosen manager. ZZ was still on good on terms with Totti, Perrotta, Burdisso; the odd one out being DDR, whom he never took to for some reason, yet even he never said much, such is his nature. Then you have the youngsters like Lamela, Florenzi, Marquinho, Romagnoli; as well as newcomers like Bradley, Castan, Destro etc; did any of them lose faith in him? There will also be certain players who don't get on with a manager – any manager, but especially so with a man of ZZ's nature – and none more so than those who get dropped.

So Giovanni still harpers on about it being a fact when it is anything but, and so thus remains… speculation. Giovanni has let his hatred for the man blind him to any other views.

Of course patience applies to players as well as coaches, Maro, more so if anything. I have defended lots of players when others are slandering them and always say players need time, especially those in new environments. When Bradley signed I wasn't overly excited like a lot of people were as I thought he was quite a limited player, but did think he could do a job as a sub or rotation player and be useful, and he has shown to be so. I admit, he has done even better than I thought he could do, and has been one of our better players on several occasions, yet he remains limited and not quite starting material with everyone available, in my view.

[Italiamia]

[Italiamia]

I think it is time for you stop the nonsense and move on, Edzo. You do not know what you are talking about.

[DavidP]

the part where I said totti was the only reason that would justify keeping him. totti is bigger than finishing 3rd. i hope ago was as well.

[RomaShield27]

Giovanni is picking fights with anyone now who doesn't immediately brand ZZ an idiot.

[FedaynULTRA83]

Sigh of relief: Pjanic has no break, sprained with ligament damage. Out a month. Phew.

[DCGweez]

Ed,

He had a run-in with Pjanic, Steck and with DDR. That much is not speculation. Marquinho has since come out and said that Zeman "annoyed him". If you figure that there are 15-16 players in the rotation that is at least 25% who had a run-in with him.

Gio,

Lamela was shit for much of last year. No one said he made Chicken Salad from Chicken Shit but Lamela was at his best under ZZ and certainly better than he was under LE. You cannot assign him all the blame for things that went wrong and then not credit him with those things that went right.

Totti is in better shape and better form than he has been since mid-Spalletti. Surely ZZ had something to do with that.

[maro]

lol. it must get exhausting working so hard to try and avoid admitting you were wrong, threadmund.

[RomaShield27]

[AS Collie]

Lads, for fuck sake. If nothing else the constant email updates are reason enough for this to be put to bed. Why not go into the shitbox and call each other names for half an hour?

Zeman's gone. Some people liked him, others hated him. He tried, he lost, he left. End of chapter.

I don't wanna get dragged into this, but the opinion of someone like Marquinho is pretty irrelevant to me. If he wants regular starting football, he should work harder. Id listen if it was Perrotta or someone similar.

I've no doubt Zeman was highly divisive, not least because nowadays by the time a player's out of his braces he's already treated like the second coming. Being made to train a lot and go to bed early wouldn't go down well with any brat, least of all some hopped up, overpaid wanker with a god complex.

[DCGweez]

There's no question he had his admirers as well. Not the least of which was Totti, i'm sure.

I'm old school and would like to give the Manager all the control and a long leash (Time). Unfortunately it's just not modern football anymore. He never should have called out DDR, it was quite stupid and he's brash and prideful. I think he's probably a great manager for those young sides in Serie B. Sides where those players can be molded and he can be the biggest Ego in the dressing room. He's proven on multiple occasions now with Juve earlier in the year and DDR as well as his colorful past that he can't control his own tongue.

His time has passed and you know I was cheering on the guy. That said, some on here are over-the-top with their critism of him, imo.

[RomaShield27]

Well said boys. Just don't be around when Giovanni returns to tell ye you have no idea what you're talking about. I have moved on from ZZ and put it to bed – I haven't mentioned him in quite a while – i was only replying to Giovanni's long post on the previous page when he said I was blinding following him.

[Italiamia]

Again, I have to say that nobody defended Ranieri in the least. The man brought the team to the brink of winning the scudetto and unfortunately, dropping points against Samp after going unbeaten in 25 dashed the dream. That came virtually out of nowhere, yet I failed to hear the support that he deserved when things were not going well the following season. But a total idiot like Zeman gets all of this adulation and support without merit. The disconnnect here is truly amazing. And, Edzo, don't give this garbage about moving on. For weeks after Zeman's sacking you continued to post favorable articles, quoting the likes of Giannini and others. I realise you were going through withdrawal but you tried to rehabilitate him by augmenting your blind support with the supportive comments of others. Just to prove to this audience that you koolaid drinkers were somehow right.

Collucci, I never signed up for the email notifications. I recommend you do the same.

[RomaShield27]

lol, withdrawal. I liked Zeman and his philosophy because I thought the attacking football was exciting and thought it could work with our attacking players, yet I still had reservations over how it left our defense and how much he was asking the players to press and basically run themselves into the ground, leaving us looking jaded and with no plan B at times. I didn't agree with his sacking because I didn't feel it was the right time, we should have stuck with him until the end of the season, but thats in no way saying we should have stuck with him no matter what. Lets not confuse him with Spalletti here.

Ranieri was nothing but a stopgap and fix it man. A nice guy, sure, and a romanista to boot, but never anything long-term.

Again you call Zeman a total idiot which does nothing but further highlight your blind dislike for him. He had his eccentric ways and was a bit mad, but he wasn't going to change for us, yet our management – all supposedly highly-regarded individuals in their field – hired him. Yes, there certainly was fan appeasement and the popular choice aspect, yet that alone is not reason to hire someone. It was a risk, one that could have worked but ultimately didn't get enough time. Disappointing, but time to move on.

[marco]