Lega Serie A – General Discussion

[RomaShield27]

'Hot Shots Part Two: Serie A's Most Prolific Midfielders':

http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/hpkke5hfd ... idfielders

'Serie A Team of 2011':

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature/_/ ... 11?cc=5739

[Jocksboy]

This week's top five:
1. Jovetic (Fiorentina) 7.86
2. Milito (Inter) 7.79
3. Cavani (Napoli) 7.64
4. Destro (Siena) 7.64
5. Di Natale (Udinese) 7.43

[Jocksboy]

This week's top five:
1. Frey (Genoa) 7.86
2. Mutu (Cesena) 7.71
3. Milito (Inter) 7.14
4. Biondini (Genoa) 7.07
5. Jankovic (Genoa) 7.07

[Lupa]

The 20 clubs in England’s Premiershit are using more ‘club-trained’ players in the 2011-12 season than their counterparts in the top division of Germany’s Bundesliga, a new study shows.

Given that the Premiershit is sometimes criticised as a cash-rich league where imports are bought at will by billionaire owners, and that the Bundesliga is often held up as a model of player production, this finding is counter-intuitive to say the least.

Yet it is backed by hard data, compiled for a demographic study of Europe’s top divisions by the CIES Football Observatory in Switzerland. The study makes detailed analysis of 12,410 footballers at 500 clubs in the top divisions of 33 European countries.

A ‘club-trained player’ is defined as someone who has spent at least three seasons being ‘developed’ by a club between the ages of 15 and 21. The study considers how many such players remain at the clubs who developed them, or in other words, the extent of successful youth development by club / league.

Across Europe, the leading 500 clubs have an average of 22.2 per cent of club-trained players. In the Premiershit it is 16.2 per cent and in Germany’s top division 16 per cent.

NB: A club-trained player is not necessarily and certainly not always of the same nationality of his club, but typically across Europe, most club-trained players at most clubs will be.

Italy’s Serie A has a shockingly low level of club-trained players: 7.4 per cent, the lowest in all of Europe.

The following figures show the situation in Europe’s ‘big five’ leagues, detailing the leading clubs by club-trained players in each of those nations:

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SPAIN 24.7 per cent of club-trained players in La Liga. BEST CLUBS: Real Sociedad 62.5 per cent, Athletic Bilbao 54.2 per cent, Santander 44 per cent, Barcelona 42.9 per cent, Mallorca 37.5 per cent. Worst club: Getafe (Zero per cent).

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FRANCE 22.9 per cent. BEST CLUBS: Sochaux 47.8 per cent, Montpellier 42.3 per cent, Stade Rennais 41.7 per cent, Toulousse 41.7 per cent, Bordeaux 40 per cent. Worst club: Dijon (Zero per cent).

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EUROPEAN AVERAGE across 500 clubs in top divisions in 33 nations: 22.2 per cent.

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ENGLAND 16.2 per cent. BEST CLUBS: Arsenal 38.7 per cent, Manchester United 37.9 per cent, Aston Villa 34.6 per cent, Liverfekkin'wankscum 29.6 per cent, Newcastle 26.9 per cent. Worst club: Wigan (Zero per cent).

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GERMANY 16 per cent. BEST CLUBS: Schalke 33.3 per cent, Bayern Munich 29.2 per cent, Bayer Leverkusen 24 per cent, FC Cologne 23.1 per cent, Werder Bremen 22.2 per cent. Worst club: Hannover 96 (4.6 per cent).

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ITALY 7.4 per cent. BEST CLUBS: Atalanta 23.1 per cent, Roma 22.2 per cent, Fiorentina 17.9 per cent, Lecce 15.4 per cent, Juventus 13.8 per cent. (NB: Seven of 20 clubs have zero club-trained players). Worst clubs: Seven different clubs from 20 (Zero per cent).

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An extract from the new study can be downloaded from the CIES website; the report is wide-ranging and includes detailed nation-by-nation analysis.

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A random selection of the study’s other findings:

League with highest % of club-trained players in Europe: Iceland (43.4 per cent).

League with lowest % of club-trained players in Europe: Italy (7.4 per cent).

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Oldest team in Europe: Milan, 30 years. Youngest: UC Dublin 20.94 years.

Oldest league in Europe: Cyprus, 28.23 years. Youngest: Slovenia: 23.65 years.

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Tallest team in Europe: FC Volyn Lutsk, 187.26cm. Shortest: Barcelona: 177.48cm.

Tallest league in Europe: Germany, 183.25cm. Shortest: Israel 180cm.

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League with highest % of active internationals: English Premiershit (41.2 per cent).

League with lowest % of active internationals: Republic of Ireland (0 per cent).

Club with highest % of active internationals: Barcelona (81 per cent).

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League with highest % of expatriates: Cyprus (70.3 per cent).

League with lowest % of expatriates: Slovenia (13.8 per cent).

Club with highest % of expatriates: Celtic (84 per cent).

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Countries providing most expatriates (foreigners) across the top divisions in 33 biggest European leagues

1 Brazil 528 players (-39 from last year)

2 France 247 (-9)

3 Serbia 228 (+16)

4 Argentina 211 (-23)

5 Portugal 132 (+10)

6 Czech Republic 125 (+18)

7 Germany 117 (+17)

8= Spain 116 (+17)

8= Nigeria 116 (+1)

10 The Netherlands 101 (+11)

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/201 ... ps-230102/

[RomaShield27]

Interesting, if flawed, article. Few queries with it. I'm skeptical of this 'club-trained players' thing. If i'm getting it right, then when a club like Man United poaches players like Pettrini from Roma and Macheda from the Nazi's and then put them in the reserves for a few years, then they count as club trained players? Thats bollocks.

Also, if you look at the youth team of say Arsenal, Id be willing to bet that there's more foreign players whom they signed at a very young age then there are naturally home-grown players. So that means they are all 'club-trained players' and all this goes into the stats of this study. Indeed Arsenal and Man United make up the two "best clubs" in percentages.

Also, simply because a club has a large academy made up of what this report says are 'club-trained players' doesn't particularly mean the first 11 of that team will be represented by them. Clubs like Man Citeh, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Villa have huge academies yet that doesnt mean they all make the breakthrough, and so these clubs still spend fortunes on new players.

I would also love to see those stats on Serie A's average of 7.4 per cent for club-trained players, and what 7 of 20 clubs have zero club-trained players. How can a club not have one club-trained player in its primavera?! That seems unbelievable.

[red]

Don't think use in the Primavera is anything to do with it.

It's the proportion of a club's first team that is made up of 'club trained' players (and I think you're right about pinching them young enough for them to count).

[RomaShield27]

Yeh i was thinking that alright. But yet lots of Serie A clubs regularly play youngsters from their primavera set-up, so where do you draw the line? I mean, does it count reserve teams from clubs in the Premierleague, or just the first team?

Feck this. From a quick look at Arsenals , from their first team, i can see:

Wilshire, Jenkinson, Gibbs

And in this 'study', Arsenal has 38.7%

From looking at Roma:

Totti, DDR, Curci, Greco, Rosi, Viviani, Okaka, Caprari

in the 'study', Roma have 22.2%


Now, does this study include players like Walcott, who under these ‘club-trained’ players ruling may count, even though Arsewipe paid £16m or whatever it was when he was 16? Also, Roma have a huge amount of home grown players out on loan (at least 12), if Arsenal have anywhere near that id be amazed.

I guess the difference here is what is considered a ‘club-trained’ player and a home-grown player, even though they both count for the sake of this study, but the overall results and point it is trying to get across remains distorted.

And would still love to know what the 7 clubs are which have zero 'club-trained players'...

[red]

It's just another dull article making the point everyone is already fully aware of: Italian clubs are less inclined to throw youngsters into their first team than clubs in many other nations are.

[DavidP]

if you were conducting a study like this, shield, how would you define "homegrown" or "club-trained" players?

[Jocksboy]

This week's top five:
1. Totti (Roma) 8.07
2. Miccoli (Palermo) 7.64
3. Pegolo (Siena) 7.57
4. Paloschi (Chievo) 7.43
5. Ibrahimovic (Milan) 7.36

[red]

[DavidP]

[RomaShield27]

[juventini92]

Hi guys, I did an article on how I think Udinese should take responsibility as a big club of Serie A, do take a look and leave your comments:

http://footballspeak.com/post/2012/01/2 ... thics.aspx

[RomaShield27]

Sorry, but no need to create a new thread for this at all. There is an thread right here in this sub-forum.

[RomaShield27]

http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/serieaaaaa ... eturn.aspx

Wednesday 01 February 2012 15:00 / By James Horncastle

It feels good to see Emiliano Mondonico back in Serie A. It really does. Hearing on Monday afternoon that he is to replace Attilio Tesser at Novara brought a smile to many faces. Not because there was any ill feeling toward his predecessor – not at all. Tesser had masterminded Novara’s historic return to Serie A after 55 years in the lower leagues, and for that the fans are forever grateful. But with the team seven points adrift from safety, it’s time now to fight for survival, and Mondonico is nothing if not a survivor.

A year ago this week, he reluctantly stepped down from his position at second division Albinoleffe. It was temporary, he insisted: “I hope to be back within two games, maybe even before.” Mondonico, to everyone’s surprise, was to undergo surgery. The 64-year-old wasn’t checking into hospital for a routine hip, knee or ankle operation to ease the pain caused by an old injury from his playing days with Cremonese, Torino, Monza and Atalanta. He had a tumour in his stomach, and not just any tumour. It was huge. When Professor Novellino removed it at the Seriate hospital near Bergamo, the tumour weighed 5kg.

Anxious for updates on his boss’s condition, Daniele Fortunato, a member of Mondonico’s backroom staff then acting as Albinoleffe’s caretaker manager, paid a visit to his mentor’s bedside. He found Mondonico in high spirits, watching Inter play on TV. Apparently the tumor wasn’t aggressive. It wasn’t attached to any major organs. It wasn’t cancer, he said. “There’s a subtle but fundamental difference,” noted Mondonico before explaining his medical predicament as if he were distinguishing zonal from man-marking to one of his players.

“Beating it, eradicating it, was possible. We did it,” he told Il Corriere della Sera. Marco Bernardini, the journalist sent to interview Mondonico, noted that he used the plural. “Life’s a team game,” he quipped. “My life, that is. There’s me, naturally, and the surgeons who operated on me. “After opening me up, they had the courage not to close me up again without having taken away that sick mass of fat and dead flesh. It seemed like there was nothing they could do; that it would be all be useless. Instead, they dared to do the impossible.”

To general amazement, Mondonico resumed his place on the bench 30 days later for Albinoleffe’s match against Modena. As he walked out of the tunnel, everyone in the Stadio Atleti Azzurri d’Italia stood up and applauded. He looked gaunt after losing so much weight, but the pointed black eyebrows and grey moustache were still there twitching mischievously. Football was his therapy. “By going into training every day, every kick that I gave the ball was the equivalent of kicking that beast in the face. I’m not saying that in this case it substituted medicine,” Mondonico claimed, “but I still like to think that inside.”

The road to recovery, though, was a long one, and there were many twists and turns still to come. Albinoleffe struggled and were required to win a relegation play-off match against Piacenza to stay in Serie B. Mondonico saved them, of course.

But as the full time whistle blew and the supporters rejoiced, a tear streamed down his face. Mondonico needed to save himself again. The tumour had returned. He had put off another operation for 15 days until Albinoleffe were safe. “For me, a new season starts,” he said. Visibly emotional, Mondonico had to leave the press conference for a moment to pull himself together. On returning, he let it be known: “I don’t feel defeated.” This was not the end of the world – the fine del Mondo.

For the sake of his health, he finally left Albinoleffe. This was to be the toughest game of Mondonico’s life. The second surgery, to everyone’s relief, was hailed a success. “Cancer,” he told Il Corriere della Sera, “is like the monster in Alien which has by now completed its awful work of devastation. The sarcoma I had in my belly was certainly a foul beast but not yet a winner.”

At his age and faced with his situation, many of us would have retired. There are more important things in life than football like friends and family. Except that’s exactly what it represents to Mondonico. “Football is my best friend,” he told La Stampa.

It wasn’t too long before he was pacing up and down the sidelines, ball under one arm, whistle between his pursed lips. He was offered the chance to take an Italian XI to the University Games in China, but it was too early. Instead, once a week during his convalescence at his home in Rivolta d’Adda, Mondonico went to a psychiatric institute where he benevolently coached groups of men and women with addictive disorders, from drugs and alcohol to gambling. Football had helped him recover, so why not others?

“When there’s a desperate team, they’ll still call Mondonico and I’ll be there,” he told La Gazzetta dello Sport. On Monday 30 January, 2012, Novara president Massimo De Salvo duly picked up the phone.

“I’ve come full circle,” Mondonico said. “On January 31, 2011 I went into the operating theatre for the first time. Exactly a year later I return to do what I’ve always done in life. I’m sorry for Tesser, who throughout these difficult times was always close to me. But football, and life, are made up of these things.”

What Novara will get from Mondonico is pane e salame [bread and salami]: good, honest, wholesome football, the genuine kind with a dashing of experience too. Mondonico has taken charge of 915 games as a coach. He guided Atalanta to a Cup Winners’ Cup semi-final in 1988, and inspired Torino to the 1992 UEFA Cup Final.
Then came the proudest of his five promotions to Serie A, achieved with Fiorentina in 2004. That had a special taste. Why? Because he is a fan of the Viola. Check the records of the 7 Bello ultras of the Curva Fiesole and they’ll tell you that member No.72, registered in 1987, is Emiliano Mondonico.

Above all else, though, he is famous for what he did in that 1992 UEFA Cup final. Playing Louis van Gaal’s Ajax, Torino hit the woodwork three times, and when the referee denied Roberto Cravero a penalty, Mondonico rose from his chair and held it aloft. It became a provocative symbol of protest against the injustice of it all. When Torino fans heard Mondonico had fallen ill a year ago, they arranged a meeting at the Stadio Olimpico and each had a photo taken of them holding up chairs. It was a sign of solidarity and gave their hero the courage to win the game of his life.

In Novara on Thursday, Mondonico will make his first appearance in Serie A for seven and a half years, against Chievo. It promises to be emotional. As he drives to the Stadio Piola, one wonders what song this great music lover will play in his car. As a player at Cremonese, he once deliberately got himself sent off so he could miss an away trip in order to see the Rolling Stones in concert. Wild Horses would perhaps be a good choice now, as not even they, it seems, could drag Mondonico away from football.

[Jocksboy]

Week 22 Top Five:
1. Milito (Inter) 8.43
2. Miccoli (Palermo) 8.36
3. T. Ribeira (Cagliari) 7.50
4. Hernanes (Lazio) 7.29
5. Rocchi (Lazio) 7.21)

[Jocksboy]

This week's Top Five:
1. Borini (Roma) 7.71
2. Jankovic (Genoa) 7.36
3. Miccoli (Palermo) 7.36
4. Giovinco (Parma) 7.29
5. Jovetic (Fiorentina) 7.21

[Jocksboy]

This week's top five:
1. Barrientos (Catania) 7.43
2. Pinilla (Cagliari) 7.29
3. Izco (Catania) 7.21
4. Caraccioli (Novara) 7.21
5. Maxi Lopez (Milan) 7.07

[Jocksboy]

This week's top five:
1. Cavani (Napoli) 7.86
2. Pirlo (Juventus) 7.71
3. Di Vaio (Bologna) 7.64
4. Muriel (Lecce) 7.50
5. Cuadrado (Lecce) 7.36