Calciopoli information

[juventino_italiano]

[Italiamia]

[ju29ro]

[Zoff82]

[ju29ro]

[Zoff82]

[ju29ro]

[Italiamia]

[ju29ro]

[Italiamia]

[Bagg10]

[ju29ro]

Actually Ita, I encourage you to continue explaining. The more you write the more the readers will see how unfair and unlawful the trial really was.

"I can tell you one thing, the tapes would have to be admitted and heard in open court."

In most cases they were not heard at all.

"Transcripts can be produced to help the lawyers and the judge follow the conversations."

In most cases these were directly presented as the only evidence of the call.

"The fundamental rule is that the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused."

I agree but the tribunal did not.

"But to me, that is meaningless if the rules of evidence do not apply. It gives the tribunal too much power to admit tainted evidence, hearsay and documentary evidence of questionable authenticity."

You basically described the trial with that line.

[Zoff82]

That puts alot into perspective Ita and makes more sense. That is just ridiculous. To have the biggest scandal in sports history to be judged by a panel of ass-clowns and biased judges. A ridiculous trial nonetheless. From a lawyer's perspective and not a Romanista, can you honestly say that this trial was fair Ita??

So what is the current situation with the appeals and who are these higher powers preventing Juve from doing??

[ju29ro]

[Italiamia]

Dino, a lawyer is trained to argue both sides of an issue. Any decent lawyer that is. I am not trying to give comfort to juve or its fans. What I am saying is what ordinarily happens in a court of law. As I said, a sport tribunal does not have the same constraints and does not have to provide either procedural or substantive due process. In addition the standard of proof is much lower than cases in both civil and of course, criminal proceedings. What happened in the scandal is no different than a wrongful termination case where an employee's union processes grievances on behalf of the union employee. Eventually, the process ends with a hearing where a 'hearing officer', not a lawyer or judge, presides. The rules of evidence do not apply. The union provides a lawyer, usually someone that a person who has just been fired would not hire, and a hearing is conducted. Many times, witnesses cannot be called on behalf of the employee. Most of the time, the employee loses. Then somebody hires a guy like me to file a civil rights action.

What I am saying is that what happened to juve is not uncommon in such proceedings. That is simply the way these things are conducted. Generally, calcio is a self regulating profession. They have their own rules of discipline and they mete out punishment separate and apart from the courts of justice. Everybody accepts this fact and they must live with the results.

Dino, a similar process occurs with doctors and lawyers who commit some kind of misconduct. Each of those professions is self regulating and therefore, we must accept the process. What I am saying is that you simply cannot expect a Sports tribunal to provide the same process as the courts of law and it is not designed to do so. Therefore, all that was needed to 'convict' juve was a hint, a whisper, a scintilla of evidence that would make it more probable than not, that Moggi, and hence juve, were guilty of some kind of misconduct requiring some form of punishment. I said this just after the scandal broke: The simple fact that Moggi is even talking to Pairetto about the selection of referees is good enough to see juve relegated.

[Bagg10]

[oily]

[Dejan-Stankovic]

[Bagg10]

[Dejan-Stankovic]