THE WOLF'S DEN - Tana dei Lupi II

[Carlo Romano]

Frenchy...I think we should read between the lines here. It wasn't just a reaction to being substituted in such an important match as against Inter. Self frustration as far as I'm concerned contributed much to the way our Capitan' left the pitch on Saturday. The seeing and realising he hadn't been able to make a difference. He is now 34 and approaching that part of a man's life which is critical and has to be dealt with properly. We all have to come to terms with the fact we can't do as quickly or as often just what we used to.

By the end of this season we will know whether Totti is starting to face not just that fact, but also in accepting he can only get away with behaving like Totti the Legend for as long as his adventures on the pitch can excuse prima donna actions.

He says he will know when the point comes that Totti the man can no longer live up to the legend and I don't doubt that. He already senses he is starting on that road. But he isn't at the stage of needing to accept the "inevitable" yet and tonight he will help us overcome those "Zingari Rumeni!"


Gio, as you know, I agree that Totti has this terrible habit of putting his foot in his mouth with certain statements and then trying to excuse them on the altar of humour. He also, although fortunately no longer very often, still allows temperament to affect certain actions that cannot be laughed off!


Yes Jeff, step two of our recovery begins shortly!!!

Forza i lupi, Forza Francè!



btw, a 'net link for tonight: http://www.atdhe.net/24934/watch-as-roma-vs-cfr-cluj

[RomaShield27]

LE FORMAZIONI UFFICIALI

ROMA: 1 Lobont; 2 Cicinho, 5 Mexes, 29 N. Burdisso, 3 Castellini; 94 Menez, 16 De Rossi, 7 Pizarro; 20 Perrotta, 9 Vucinic; 10 Totti.
A disp.: 32 Doni, 77 Cassetti, 4 Juan, 30 Simplicio, 19 Baptista, 8 Adriano, 22 Borriello, 33 Brighi.
All.: Ranieri

CLUJ: 1 Nuno Claro ; 4 Panìn, 15 Alcàntara, 20 Cadù, 66 Edimar, 24 Rada; 7 Dica, 8 Kivuvu, 19 Juan Culio; 22 Hora; 9 Traorè.
A disp.: 44 Stancioiu, 2 Tony, 13 Piccolo, 99 Sforzini, 16 Bastos, 28 Konè, 32 Bjelanovic, 10 De Zerbi.
All.: Cartu

Will we get a deacent workin link? That one that you posted, Carlo, seems to be the only one.

[pocari_fenrir]

we're playing good... dont understand why we couldnt turn in a performance like this over Brescia and Bologna. the fact that we havent already scored yet is a bit worrisome

[maro]

Fitness, Pocari. Ranieri suddenly has a squad to pick from and it shows because so many of the boys are looking fresh. It's nice to see Cicinho out there. Don't tell dibbus, but I like Cicinho and couldn't understand it when we were desperately trying to offload him and, at the same time, to bring in a second-rate, second-string left-back. I would have gone with Riise, Rosi, Cicinho, Cassetti as our four fullbacks, though perhaps Cicinho doesn't train well or something. He's done well tonight, though I suspect in a convoluted kind of way the goal that Traore' butchered was ultimately Cicinho's fault. I don't really like Menez down the right - inevitably he drifts in and out of the game. Totti's a genius. If Vooch were as accurate a player as Totti he'd be world class. Pizza's over-rated. And it's really hard to see what Perrotta brings to the table.

[pocari_fenrir]

now im having a hell of a hard time detecting the sarcasm in your words, Maro. Castellini isnt half bad, he's managed to push up in attack alot and seems to dominate in the air

[pocari_fenrir]

there, you got your wish. Cassetti on... at the cost of Cicinho. finally a goal too and what a beaut she was from Mexes

[RomaShield27]

Agreed on Cici. He had a good run out and was good overall (but just dont tell Aba). I hope he can keep it up and keep it going for us. A very entertaining game overall, we deserved to go two up, I feel, but then put ourselves under unnecessary pressure at the end. Conceding from a set piece was always a possibility against these giants, but after that then I felt we were a bit naive and lacked that bit of composure to see out the game. That still seems to be a problem for us and its worrying, to be honest, and more than likely will come back to hurt us in the future unless we wise up. Still, good to get the three points, we deserved it from our overall performance. Beautiful goal from Borriello, too.

[maro]

I hate 4-3-3, I really do. Surely it's the least fluid, least supple formation of all? Still, I can understand why Ranieri brought Adriano on for Menez, though it's hardly a change I'd have made, and after a quiet first 15 Adriano did very well down the right. And Borriello for Vooch made plenty of sense in terms of profondita'. Thredzo, you made a comment in the sb about Adriano not having been even fourth choice striker on the weekend and yet being turned to here, but he wasn't playing as a 'striker'. Vooch and then Borriello was being asked to make the runs in behind. Adriano, like Menez before him, was picking the ball up in front of his fullback. While their positions might look equivalent in a schematised 4-3-3 they were actually playing in entirely different roles. My comments on Riise above were confirmed again, for me, tonight - not that Castellini did badly, but it's just that in the final 5 minutes of games I think Riise's contribution is simply incredible. It's probably more about his will to impose himself on the game even than his fitness, but his contribution then is outstanding.

A nice goal from Borriello, but loads of credit to Vooch - on Saturday he got the headlines; tonight he helped make them for his team-mate. This is what having a squad is about. And terrific for Mexes. I meant to post something earlier in the week about the Mexes/Juan call: for me it was absolutely decisive. It made no sense not to play Mexes tonight and to rest Juan - unless Ranieri had no confidence in Mexes and was waiting for the next chance to ship him out the door. Playing him tonight was a statement - a statement of solidarity after the Brescia debacle and a statement of appreciation: even if Mexes is third choice, Ranieri said tonight, it's only because the two ahead of him are so incredibly good. I was worried by Mexes in the first 15 minutes when he seeemed to be trying to win everything, even when the battle was already lost. He settled, though, and the goal was wonderful.

[Carlo Romano]

[Giacomo]

The finishing was not clinical by the strikers - Borriello excepted - but the goalkeeper of Cluj also made at least 2 excellent saves.

Replacing Menez with Adriano on the right was ridiculous.

[maro]

Did I mention I hate 4-3-3? Menez has to be getting pissed off with all these substitutions. We did win, of course, despite that rather surprising substitution and Adriano has another 45 minutes under his rather straining belt while Borriello, Juan, Cassetti, and Riise had a little rest ahead of the weekend.

[RomaShield27]

[Italiamia]

The latter part of your post is signifcant Edzo. I always believed we should have a 'Life after Totti' thread to discuss how the club, and the team will react when he retires. From what I see 5 games into the season and 2 CL matches is that he looks very good and he is not playing older. He still has pretty good pace and remains a threat offensively. He looks to have 3 good seasons left in him as long as he can avoid serious injury. Nevertheless, I think the team knows they can win without him whereas just a few years ago, the mentality was that Roma desperately need Totti to be competitive.

I believe also that Totti feels like he is owed something from Roma. After all, he rejected moves to big clubs for more money because of his loyalty to the organization and the city. He had a strong relationship with Franco Sensi and we all need to recognise that Totti took less money and allowed the club to derive income from his image rights for years. He did this at a time when Roma was weighed down by crushing debt and faced the real possibility of being demoted for lack of financial stability. Totti gives/gave Roma credibility. He was the primary reason any decent player would consider Roma as a destination and it is unfortunate that the club never really approached the marketing of the Totti in a serious way. Marketing in general has never been seriously considered because for years now, Roma has not been operated in a professional manner or at least in a way a 250 million euro company should be operated. There is no reason that Roma should not be among the elite clubs of europe and I am sure if a person of some intelligence buys the club, he will see the possibilities and learn from the opportunties lost under the Sensi ownership.

[Carlo Romano]

Il Corriere dello Sport tells us today that 15,000 tickets have already been sold for the Derby del Sole and an attendance of 50,000 is expected. Not quite a full house as the San Paolo seats around 62,000. Before new safety laws brough the numbers down, the capacity was over 78,000 and I have fond memories of watching big matches there on tv, especially when la nostra magica pay them a visit!


Quotes from last night by Totti, Mexes, and Borriello:

Totti: “The important thing was to win. They are three important points that put us back in the running. We have to believe in this Roma.”

Mexes: “It has been a very difficult time. I lost my head in Brescia and I would like to take the opportunity to apologise. This goal is a renaissance. We can repeat last season. We are the same group as before.”

Borriello: “More than anything else, my goal was an important goal, as it allowed us to earn our first three points in an exceptional competition like the Champions League. It was a tougher game than expected, but we had our chances. We ran a few risks at the back, but brought home the points. Now we must try to improve those things that didn’t work this evening. We’ll only be in the clear if we continue to play with this level of tenacity!"


An interesting point is the fact that Pizarro made his 38'th assist last night which makes 28 in the campionato and 10 in Europe. I had mentioned on the Shoutbox that I'd like to see him score as it has been quite a while since he last did. But when you make those assists and contribute to the team as he does, then goals are merely the icing on the cake...


Regarding Mexes' contract talks, he said “It’s normal to think about other solutions when you play little, but I am very happy at Roma.”
Today LaRoma24.it runs this little piece stating Chelsea are offering him a contract of approximately €5mil p/a which is just under double his present €2.6mil per year.

If we read it that way then it would seem they think he will see out his contract with us and leave on a Bosman next summer...I've never been an expert on contract issues. According to this article, Philou will be clear to begin negotiations with other clubs from this coming February if we haven't sold him off in January.

http://laroma24.it/archivio/28332/merca ... mexes.html



Tommaso, from back in the summer it seems our mister had this dream of a front three involving Adriano and I don't think it will be easily let go unless Big Fatso doesn't make the grade. I think we would all agree that having him fit would be a plus for all our sakes. When he's not then that's another matter! Personally I like the theory of a Vučinić -Borriello front pair with Ménez just behind them as I think you do, but for now Monsieur Jeremy isn't firing on all eight cylinders. Neither was Vuci but he is well on his way there now.

James, like I said before, I just knew Ranieri would play Adri. The words "rotation system" can be used as one big get out if necessary by a coach. It would make more sense surely to ease him back into things in less crucial matches...

[Frenchesco]

Much needed victory las night. I haven't watched the game but hope this is really the beggining of something good.
Regarding Totti, I understand well what you are saying, and I agree with you guys but I really wonder whether this kind of captain could in a near future affect the team, I mean negatively affect the team and the atmosphere surrounding the players, the manager, etc...
Just imagine if Vucinic does not score that goal on sunday...we would have heard that Ranieri had made a wrong choice and I am sure many fans would have supported Totti and his reaction. Now, do you all really think all players like to see a captain, their captain with this kind of behavior? They all have to follow some rules and I can't find excuses to Francesco for not following them. He should be the one leading the way. It is too easy to get the good, but when things r wrong Totti is not an example.
Now that we have many forwards and I would say many different types of characters in this team, it is going to be difficult for Ranieri, not only to select the best 11 but also to remain the person with the authority in the dressing room. I fear that he might loose it whenever things are going to go bad again. We know Menez, Adriano, perhaps Mexes, and even Vucinic are guys who are not going to be easy to control if things are not going their way. Why should we blame them if they are not acting like true professionals when Mr Francesco can act the way he likes??? Totti has been great on the pitch but he s a real selfish man who is more important than Roma. I do not believe this is good for the future of Roma and would like to see De Rossi with the armband. Francesco is not over but I think it is time now for him to leave more space to some others. I do not believe some players will just accept nicely to be behind the legend until the end of their career. It is going to be the time to give the chance to others. To my eyes, Totti should not play as much as he is doing now; he is unique, has a great vision and technique but if we are to win anything this season, I am one of those who believe that it will be with less Totti.

Below is a post from one of the guy on theoffside and I although I do not agree with everything written, I must say some of the points are to be considered.

"Yes,Roma won 2 straight matches,but we have enormous problems in the locker room

1.Ranieri was forced to start Totti and play him for 90 mins no matter what happened(even if we have the derby del sole after 3 days)
2.Vucinic scored the winner 3 days ago so he started as well
3.Menez played as the 3rd attacker,because Ranieri couldnt risk starting Adri or Baps and Borri was tired

but when Roma couldnt score,it was time to make changes(half time was too soon though),like I said above Totti was untouchable,Vuci was the worst player on the pitch but Ranieri hoped that he could still have a moment of magic so decided to wait for another 15 or so mins
so it was Menez who came off despite playing very good and creating half of the chances,but still,injustice happens
from another point of view,Ranieri was forced to bring in Adriano first(to solve another attitude problem) but he should have replaced Vuci or Totti because even rocks know that Adriano is not a winger and its better to play him next to faster players(I am sure Mister knew this,but what can he do if he promised to play him for at least 45 min)
but what Claudio did? played him next to 2 other heavy strikers and nobody left there to at least run and thats why we didnt create more chances and were lucky to score 2 goals from long balls(after replacing Lazynic actually)

so whoever defends Totti after his actions from last weekend,must realize now that he hugely damaged our locker room instead of doing the opposite

yes,we have excellent attack force but what do they think?
1.Totti wants to play always and I can say he is not doing that for the good of giallorossi,but for his records,otherwise he would have realized his shitty performance against Inter and sit on the bench(plz dont say he was so frustrated with his game that he left,its a simple lie)
2.Vucinic is always Lazynic,if he is on,then our chances are much higher,but when he is off he must not start
3.Menez is inconsistent,but is a completely different player this season and after some months we can say he WAS inconsistent,however his morale will continue to drop because he will always come off the first(or dont even start) and mostly it will be the wrong move,but Ranieri at first is afraid for his job(aka not being the anti-totti) so this is logical for him
4. Baptista is quiet and collects his money,so no direct problems with him,but still if a player is in that situation in a team,then it still hurts
5. Okaka knows he has no chance and is hoping for a January move,but as a young player,he is calm and quiet too
6.Adriano is still out of form so he realizes his situatuion as of now,but I dont know what will happen in the future
6.Borriello added the missing piece and is proving his worth,so he is happy and I think his situation will be more or less the same - no problem"

[Italiamia]

I do not have the time to address any points that guy made in his post at the offside but I disagree with nearly everything he said. Totti has not damaged the locker-room. Most of those players have been on the team for years now and they know Francesco's personality. As I said several weeks ago, the problem with him is that such comments should be made within the confines of the locker-room and he should never upstage the coach. You win as a team, and you lose as a team.

This guy from the offside acts as though this was the first time Totti has opened his mouth before thinking. If Totti plays less than he is used to it will not be because his talent has diminished. It would be because he is 34 years old, and fewer minutes at his age may prove important to his health, and the health of the team in the latter stages of the season. No Roma player is more respected than Totti and further, there is not a single player on that team who believes for a minute that Totti's presence on the pitch hurts the team.

[stefano]

I disagree with just about everything in that post from the offside. It is a false narrative and you guys are seeing problems where they do not exist.

[Frenchesco]

[Frenchesco]

Ok, maybe it is true, I am seeing problems when there are not. I honestly hope I am wrong. The future will tell us but I believe that if things go bad again, Ranieri will not be able to do anything because he is loosing control over this team. When we'll win, things will be fine. Trust me when things will get wrong, the guy will have no power to do anything. We will not blame the players but him. Players are going to be bigger than the coach...we have seen this in many teams and I would not be surprised to see this happening in Roma.

[Carlo Romano]

I'm somewhere between all you guys here and my assessment of our Capitan' is a cold blooded and practical one.

I'd hate to see a grand master like Totti turn into a parody of himself. Gio reckons he has three playing years left in him. Maybe so but not at top level in my opinion. There are those who even now say he is getting past that stage though for now I can't go beyond saying the cracks are only starting to show.

I think at least some people will agree with me when I say by the end of this season we will know whether he has one more big adventure left ahead of him where we could expect him to still be able to compete with the top teams in Italy and the rest of Europe.

The last thing I want to see is a Totti unable to cope with certain situations and then having to face the displeasure of fans who once worshipped him. I hope he can tell, as he has himself said, when it is time to accept becoming a "bit part" player, no longer being an automatic first choice.